Let the OCS MEGA-THREAD begin!

[Danm1983]

 

Absolutes are hard to defend. Signing 5/10 year leases in business is common and a great way to a.) mitigate risk, b.) have cheaper yearly costs than you would owning it.

 

Yes, if you plan to use it for 30+ years, in the long run it's probably cheaper to buy, but that may not matter. If, for example, you're more able to perpetually pay $500/mo, versus $1000/mo for 30 years, many businesses would choose to do the former.

 

If we build an OCS, I'm pretty sure we're going to use it for its entire lifecycle, which will be significantly longer than 30 years, I hope.

 

The Yale Bowl turns 100 this year

 

 

I'm thinking 50 years minimum with planned renovations/maintenance once or twice in there (@ 20 and 40 years). Design and materials have come a long way, I guess it depends at what point would the operational costs start to rise (25-30 years and beyond?) to warrant something else, but who knows state of program at that point.

 

That coupled with the fact it won't be as large as RJS, and upkeep would be different entirely.

[Guest]

 

 

All other things being equal, it's always going to be cheaper to buy than rent, if you intend to use something for its entire life cycle

 

Why?

 

Simple, when renting you have to pay a profit to the owner. When owning, that money can be used for other purposes.

You're confusing residential and commercial property.

Companies often lease office space, they don't buy buildings. And when they buy buildings, they can find themselves in serious financial trouble. I worked for two medical practices that got into financial trouble over buying vs leasing. Both eventually went out of business trying to pay enormous liens.

You also ignored upkeep and repair costs which can be substantial over time.

I doubt any school listed cost savings as a reason to build a stadium.

 

 

 

Perhaps you missed the part of owning it for its lifecycle, perhaps you're not in business.

 

Whether you own or rent, the occupant pays for everything

- maintenance comes out of the rent money

- upkeep comes out of the rent money

- interest on the loan comes out of the rent money

- and profit comes out of the rent money

 

Profit is the only thing a renter has to pay that an owner does not

 

Because no owner is going to willingly lose money on a rented building

 

But, you say, an owner might be willing to lease it at a loss if they're planning to sell it later for a profit.

 

Well, the capital gains that could make that possible would be the same capital gains you could recover if you were the owner.

 

So I'll repeat it, a little more slowly this time - if you plan to use a property for its entire life cycle, it will always be cheaper to own than rent (and yes, 99.9% = always, since you can always find one insignificant example to prove the rule, pun intended.)

 

 

You are really forgetting two very important things in this case.

 

First, there is no profit.  Yes, there is a budget that has to be covered, but the stadium is owned by the County - who doesn't need to make a profit.

 

Second, and this is the real key here: USF has roommates... USF is not the only tenant renting here ... The taxpayers of Hillsborough County, the Bucs, other events.

 

So the costs you mention above are not borne by one tenant... they are spread across all tenants.

 

Therefore, I will submit it will be cheaper for USF to stay at Ramond James for the remainder of the life of the stadium.

 

---------

 

As I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of reasons why an OCS is better for USF... but cost is not one of them.

[charsibb]

 

 

 

All other things being equal, it's always going to be cheaper to buy than rent, if you intend to use something for its entire life cycle

 

Why?

 

Simple, when renting you have to pay a profit to the owner. When owning, that money can be used for other purposes.

You're confusing residential and commercial property.

Companies often lease office space, they don't buy buildings. And when they buy buildings, they can find themselves in serious financial trouble. I worked for two medical practices that got into financial trouble over buying vs leasing. Both eventually went out of business trying to pay enormous liens.

You also ignored upkeep and repair costs which can be substantial over time.

I doubt any school listed cost savings as a reason to build a stadium.

 

 

 

Perhaps you missed the part of owning it for its lifecycle, perhaps you're not in business.

 

Whether you own or rent, the occupant pays for everything

- maintenance comes out of the rent money

- upkeep comes out of the rent money

- interest on the loan comes out of the rent money

- and profit comes out of the rent money

 

Profit is the only thing a renter has to pay that an owner does not

 

Because no owner is going to willingly lose money on a rented building

 

But, you say, an owner might be willing to lease it at a loss if they're planning to sell it later for a profit.

 

Well, the capital gains that could make that possible would be the same capital gains you could recover if you were the owner.

 

So I'll repeat it, a little more slowly this time - if you plan to use a property for its entire life cycle, it will always be cheaper to own than rent (and yes, 99.9% = always, since you can always find one insignificant example to prove the rule, pun intended.)

 

 

You are really forgetting two very important things in this case.

 

First, there is no profit.  Yes, there is a budget that has to be covered, but the stadium is owned by the County - who doesn't need to make a profit.

 

Second, and this is the real key here: USF has roommates... USF is not the only tenant renting here ... The taxpayers of Hillsborough County, the Bucs, other events.

 

So the costs you mention above are not borne by one tenant... they are spread across all tenants.

 

Therefore, I will submit it will be cheaper for USF to stay at Ramond James for the remainder of the life of the stadium.

 

---------

 

As I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of reasons why an OCS is better for USF... but cost is not one of them.

 

 

Good point about the roommates - hadn't thought of that.

 

But if we owned it, the roommates would be paying us the money instead, and we would have greater control over which roomates we picked.

 

Both are compelling arguments.

 

But without doing the full-on cost model, we're just pissin in the dark here

[The Great 8]

There's no pissing at all, actually. Based on us being in Ray Jay, it'd stand to reason that some university cost analysis has shown it dramatically cheaper in the short term to remain tenants there. Otherwise, it's a no brainer that long term it's cheaper to have an OCS. If it were cheaper short term as well, we'd have construction on-going, or completed, by now.

 

When we can foot the "short term" cost of the OCS (which "short term" may be for decades) and/or not having an OCS presents too much in the way of lost opportunity cost (i.e. Ray Jay blocks us from Big XII / ACC discussions), then we will strike ground. It's not very difficult. Well, I guess calculating opportunity is...

Edited December 18, 2014 by The Great 8

[JTrue]

If we did build an OCS, where would we put it?

[Skingraft]

I still like the idea of going in with a soccer club or the Rays on a new home

[GaUSFBull]

If we did build an OCS, where would we put it?

Anyone have a campus map so we can figure it out?

[Karma]

Wow, just wow. First lets ear up a few things. They Rays are not going to build a new stadium. The worst part of Tampa where no one from St Pete, Souh Tampa or Lakeland would be interested in driving to.

Also, I an tell none of you have done much or any commercial real estate or development. The mall would cost practically as much as the cost to build a nice stadium. The Claw is on environmentally sensitive land that the state would never allow construction on. MOSI is owned by the community and while that sounds like the best option for off campus, that is also a very long and expensive process.

The best option is an on campus stadium that would be affordable and financable. To do that projected ticket revenue has to be calculated. That would be hard for UCF to do because of the large step down a move would be from Ray jay and the amenities that usf fans are use to.

[Hem]

Wow, just wow. First lets ear up a few things. They Rays are not going to build a new stadium. The worst part of Tampa where no one from St Pete, Souh Tampa or Lakeland would be interested in driving to.

Also, I an tell none of you have done much or any commercial real estate or development. The mall would cost practically as much as the cost to build a nice stadium. The Claw is on environmentally sensitive land that the state would never allow construction on. MOSI is owned by the community and while that sounds like the best option for off campus, that is also a very long and expensive process.

The best option is an on campus stadium that would be affordable and financable. To do that projected ticket revenue has to be calculated. That would be hard for UCF to do because of the large step down a move would be from Ray jay and the amenities that usf fans are use to.

Freudian slip there brah?

 

Joined right before the USF/UCF game this year too I see? 

 

user name is Karma? 

 

lulz. I smell a troll

Edited December 18, 2014 by Hem

[Triple B]

Wow, just wow. First lets ear up a few things. They Rays are not going to build a new stadium. The worst part of Tampa where no one from St Pete, Souh Tampa or Lakeland would be interested in driving to.

Also, I an tell none of you have done much or any commercial real estate or development. The mall would cost practically as much as the cost to build a nice stadium. The Claw is on environmentally sensitive land that the state would never allow construction on. MOSI is owned by the community and while that sounds like the best option for off campus, that is also a very long and expensive process.

The best option is an on campus stadium that would be affordable and financable. To do that projected ticket revenue has to be calculated. That would be hard for UCF to do because of the large step down a move would be from Ray jay and the amenities that usf fans are use to.

Freudian slip there brah?

 

Joined right before the USF/UCF game this year too I see? 

 

user name is Karma? 

 

lulz. I smell a troll

Hem, this is a blast from the past on our board formerly called South Tampa Knight.