It's time to go on the record .... (OT drivel from our Kanigit friends)

[Meeps]

3 minutes ago, Justin C said:

Even if you add ticket sales of 3,678,481 to change in net position of 1,427,226 that totals roughly 5.1 million for 2018. Still far short of $4 million per home game. As Puc mentioned earlier, revenue does not equal profit. Many companies operate with positive revenue and negative profits. We can all agree that UCF does not profit 4 million per home game as insinuated by the article from the Sentinel (the original basis for the constructive argument)

Yes, apparently I have been schooled more rigorously than you and I suggest reading up on the differences between revenue and profit. You're spinning your wheels here and clearly incapable of having an intelligent conversation.

Profit is not synonymous with net. I never claimed nor did Bianchi claim that there is a net profit of 4 million per home game. Based on the original premise that home games make $3-$4 million (per Bianchi), we don't have data to prove or disprove that. However, we can take numbers from previous years and see how much is actually coming in. While it did not show the range quoted, it shows that there is a net positive after all is said and done. You can claim that those numbers are subsidized by the student athletic fee, but every G5's athletic budget is subsidized in that manner. What I am suggesting is that UCF is better off with the OCS due to the very nature that owning > renting. There isn't an itemized spreadsheet that breaks down exactly what was made with football only versus what the expenses were football only. Since the vast majority of income is football related, we have to assume the lion share of the income is directly attributed to football.

I've repeatedly asked for you guys to show me how solvent your program is by renting so we can have a real discussion of whether renting really is superior, but instead - it looks like name calling and assumptions trump reason.

[puc86]

11 minutes ago, Justin C said:

Even if you add ticket sales of 3,678,481 to change in net position of 1,427,226 that totals roughly 5.1 million for 2018. Still far short of $4 million per home game. As Puc mentioned earlier, revenue does not equal profit. Many companies operate with positive revenue and negative profits. We can all agree that UCF does not profit 4 million per home game as insinuated by the article from the Sentinel (the original basis for this constructive argument)

Yes, apparently I have been schooled more rigorously than you and I suggest reading up on the differences between revenue and profit. You're spinning your wheels here and clearly incapable of having an intelligent conversation.

More importantly all of Athletics after $23 million in student fees and $7 million from the AAC doesn’t make $4 million in an entire calendar year, much less one game event.

[puc86]

16 minutes ago, Meeps said:

Profit is not synonymous with net. I never claimed nor did Bianchi claim that there is a net profit of 4 million per home game. Based on the original premise that home games make $3-$4 million (per Bianchi), we don't have data to prove or disprove that. However, we can take numbers from previous years and see how much is actually coming in. While it did not show the range quoted, it shows that there is a net positive after all is said and done. You can claim that those numbers are subsidized by the student athletic fee, but every G5's athletic budget is subsidized in that manner. What I am suggesting is that UCF is better off with the OCS due to the very nature that owning > renting. There isn't an itemized spreadsheet that breaks down exactly what was made with football only versus what the expenses were football only. Since the vast majority of income is football related, we have to assume the lion share of the income is directly attributed to football.

I've repeatedly asked for you guys to show me how solvent your program is by renting so we can have a real discussion of whether renting really is superior, but instead - it looks like name calling and assumptions trump reason.

Since none of you can google, do basic research or read a balance sheet; we made $5 trillion dollars last season. Now prove me wrong like I did when you guys made an absurd claim also I did prove you don’t even gross $4 million much less make a third of it in an entire season.

[Mission9]

11 hours ago, Meeps said:

First and foremost, renting something means your money goes automatically goes to a net negative. The only benefit to playing at Ray Jay is IF you move to a P5 - then it works out in your favor. However, as it stands, having an OCS that you can afford is going to be superior in pretty much every facet while in the AAC.

1. Game Day atmosphere is better. (No tarping off swaths of seats, having other teams stuff such as a pirate ship in there that detracts from your team.)

2. Enhances team pride

3. Brings Alumni back to campus

4. Modifiable to needs (can increase stadium seating, make more premium seating, alcohol sales etc...)

5. Having a true home allows the fan base to create/engage in tradition

At the end of the day, having an OCS garnered $4,959,403 from Game tickets, $3,945,893 in sponsorship, and $808,164 (other) which I assume includes concessions for the 2017 season. That comes to $1,618,910 per home game (x6) excluding the AAC Champ game.

Puc wanted the bottomline, which is a net positive of $3,355,218 thats AFTER all expenses including paying the stadium loan principal + interest which is on track to be done and paid off excluding maintenance/major additions in approximately 20 years. Let's just say maintenance over that time costs several million, then we'll say 25 years max. Not only do we reap the above benefits, we have an investment that is on track to be paid off while also pocketing additional revenue per year after expenses. Meanwhile, the cost of building an OCS continues to rise each year. By the time USF pulls the trigger, the same OCS (not saying you're going to build what we did) would cost north of $70 million.

Can you show me how USF is breaking even or making money at Ray Jay after expenses? USF has been receiving money from former big east departures and your HC's salary has been subsidized by Texas. Both of those are drawing to a close. Strong's salary jumps to $2.5 million in 2019. At the end of the day, when the numbers come out for the 2019 season and onwards, I think it's safe to say UCF is going to naturally bring in more and more money as each year goes by and the debt load from the stadium is diminished.

 

I am unsure as to why you brought up points 1 to 3 as I had already conceded that those  certainly may work out for you.  Keep in mind, any point about USF building a stadium is not a criticism of UCF.  You pretty much had to build a stadium.  USF does not.  In keeping with my anti-debt position when future earnings, fan support, and conference affiliation are precarious at best,  why build a second rate stadium while playing in a second rate conference if you do not HAVE to?  While UCF fans have to be given credit for being excited for playing in and winning in the AAC, most USF fans can be front running phonies and do not care if the Bulls win the AAC or not.  The fans want sizzle in the steak like Alabama and Florida.  You cannot and will not get those teams to show up to a 30K bleacher filled boondoggle on Fowler Ave but you can get them to come to Raymond James.  Different fanbases, different circumstances. 

Just an added comment, it is amusing that Pitt, Miami, and even USC do not suffer any criticism at all for playing in stadiums which have NFL games but Temple and USF do.  Must be Pee 5 privilege. 

 

[Triple B]

53 minutes ago, SquareKnight said:

Since it is so hard for your program to sell tickets, maybe you don't require donations to sit in any sections of your rental stadium.  

I have already proven mathematically that UCF received about $2 million PER GAME in 2018 just from the ticket price AND required donation for season tickets. It's not my fault if you all are not good enough at math to understand it. 

The required donation is included because those donations would not be received if they were not required to purchase the tickets. Therefore they are revenue that is DIRECTLY attributable to our home football games.

In many cases, the required donation is significantly higher than the ticket price.

In the seven Tower Club sections, the $1,500 per seat donation was $1,250 more than the $250 ticket price.

In four other sections, the $800 per seat donation was $550 more than the $250 ticket price.

In another five sections, the $550 per seat donation was $300 more than the $250 ticket price.

In the eight Carl B&G Cabana sections, the $300 per seat donation was $100 more than the ticket price.

There are 25 other sections that required a donation anywhere between $21 and $150 for every seat.

THAT is how you get total revenue that is generated for each football game significantly higher than the "ticket revenue" shown in the reports.

Once again...sit down...you have been schooled!

Changed my mind again ...... apparently he is this ******* stupid.

[JTrue]

54 minutes ago, SquareKnight said:

Since it is so hard for your program to sell tickets, maybe you don't require donations to sit in any sections of your rental stadium.  

I have already proven mathematically that UCF received about $2 million PER GAME in 2018 just from the ticket price AND required donation for season tickets. It's not my fault if you all are not good enough at math to understand it. 

The required donation is included because those donations would not be received if they were not required to purchase the tickets. Therefore they are revenue that is DIRECTLY attributable to our home football games.

In many cases, the required donation is significantly higher than the ticket price.

In the seven Tower Club sections, the $1,500 per seat donation was $1,250 more than the $250 ticket price.

In four other sections, the $800 per seat donation was $550 more than the $250 ticket price.

In another five sections, the $550 per seat donation was $300 more than the $250 ticket price.

In the eight Carl B&G Cabana sections, the $300 per seat donation was $100 more than the ticket price.

There are 25 other sections that required a donation anywhere between $21 and $150 for every seat.

THAT is how you get total revenue that is generated for each football game significantly higher than the "ticket revenue" shown in the reports.

Once again...sit down...you have been schooled!

 

Just so I’m clear, you are rock solid in your belief that between tickets, the stadium, other ad money, and the AAC payout...UCF has a total profit of over $35 million per season?

[Bull Nut]

2 hours ago, SquareKnight said:

Since it is so hard for your program to sell tickets, maybe you don't require donations to sit in any sections of your rental stadium.  

I have already proven mathematically that UCF received about $2 million PER GAME in 2018 just from the ticket price AND required donation for season tickets. It's not my fault if you all are not good enough at math to understand it. 

The required donation is included because those donations would not be received if they were not required to purchase the tickets. Therefore they are revenue that is DIRECTLY attributable to our home football games.

In many cases, the required donation is significantly higher than the ticket price.

In the seven Tower Club sections, the $1,500 per seat donation was $1,250 more than the $250 ticket price.

In four other sections, the $800 per seat donation was $550 more than the $250 ticket price.

In another five sections, the $550 per seat donation was $300 more than the $250 ticket price.

In the eight Carl B&G Cabana sections, the $300 per seat donation was $100 more than the ticket price.

There are 25 other sections that required a donation anywhere between $21 and $150 for every seat.

THAT is how you get total revenue that is generated for each football game significantly higher than the "ticket revenue" shown in the reports.

Once again...sit down...you have been schooled!

 

You sir have figured it out! How could I have missed this???  Do me a favor and contact Crowe, LLC immediately and let them know that their audit is bogus and that your numbers are a better representation of revenue per game. Hell, they may even offer you a lucrative career so long as this accounting mishap doesn't become public... Thank you for schooling me I can finally sleep tonight!

[DJBulls]

Maybe Squareknight should sit this one out...

[Triple B]

4 hours ago, SquareKnight said:

There are 25 other sections that required a donation anywhere between $21 and $150 for every seat.

Which is the same type set up USF had in their rented stadium several years ago .... which means that type revenue is not exclusive, and therefore not an advantage, to owning an ocs.

[DJBulls]

This is a interesting experiment to see how many times a UCF fan will keep spouting bs when someone actually takes the time out of the day to fact check their nonsense...

Edited July 31, 2019 by bullsonparade