It's time to go on the record .... (OT drivel from our Kanigit friends)

[puc86]

7 minutes ago, Meeps said:

 

Except revenue isn’t profit, I have no doubt and haven’t I argued that UCF doesn’t bring in near that amount what I question is it’s drasticly larger and more profitable than renting if there is a viable option. When expenses are paid what is left for UCF is $1.5 million for the entire season  which is still profit so that’s nice but hardly the drastic numbers that make a long term commitment the no brainer that was being presented. Having games in a stadium that you have either already paid for, are paying for or are paying rent for is more valuable than paying to not use it, I don’t see how that would be controversial.

[Meeps]

1 minute ago, puc86 said:

Except revenue isn’t profit, I have no doubt and haven’t I argued that UCF doesn’t bring in near that amount what I question is it’s drasticly larger and more profitable than renting if there is a viable option. When expenses are paid what is left for UCF is $1.5 million for the entire season  which is still profit so that’s nice but hardly the drastic numbers that make a long term commitment the no brainer that was being presented. Having games in a stadium that you have either already paid for, are paying for or are paying rent for is more valuable than paying to not use it, I don’t see how that would be controversial.

Agreed. 1.5 million in profit is not a game changer and it appears that the stadium won't be paid off for approximately 20 years. Then again, I suppose the same argument could be made with renting a home versus buying a home. In the end, owning the home is always going to be better. Does USF profit from Ray Jay at all minus expenses?

[puc86]

1 minute ago, Meeps said:

Agreed. 1.5 million in profit is not a game changer and it appears that the stadium won't be paid off for approximately 20 years. Then again, I suppose the same argument could be made with renting a home versus buying a home. In the end, owning the home is always going to be better. Does USF profit from Ray Jay at all minus expenses?

Except you can turn around and sell your home and that’s where the profit comes from, who would UCF be able to sell their stadium to? Also if you could pay it off and do not have to upgrade or invest in repairs it could also conceivably be more profitable at that point but I don’t think anyone honestly believes that your stadium won’t need repair in 20 years because it took at less than a decade to need hefty repairs. There is obviously nonfiscal benefits to an OCS, no one debates that. The question is how valuable is it when compared to actual dollars? Your hand was forced and the dollars aligned to emotional argument, ours are at odds with one another so the answer isn’t necessarily the same.

[Meeps]

7 hours ago, puc86 said:

Except you can turn around and sell your home and that’s where the profit comes from, who would UCF be able to sell their stadium to? Also if you could pay it off and do not have to upgrade or invest in repairs it could also conceivably be more profitable at that point but I don’t think anyone honestly believes that your stadium won’t need repair in 20 years because it took at less than a decade to need hefty repairs. There is obviously nonfiscal benefits to an OCS, no one debates that. The question is how valuable is it when compared to actual dollars? Your hand was forced and the dollars aligned to emotional argument, ours are at odds with one another so the answer isn’t necessarily the same.

The need to sell the stadium isn't where the profit would come from. Having little to no debt on a stadium means that the bulk of the revenue generated from the stadium goes straight to profit. While it's true there are going to be upgrades and maintenance along the way, they won't be nearly as much as the stadium itself unless there is something major like adding 15,000 seats. Then again, that would also expedite the loan payment process. In the end, instead of rent (throwing money away) they are reinvesting into themselves by paying off the stadium.

[puc86]

4 hours ago, Meeps said:

The need to sell the stadium isn't where the profit would come from. Having little to no debt on a stadium means that the bulk of the revenue generated from the stadium goes straight to profit. While it's true there are going to be upgrades and maintenance along the way, they won't be nearly as much as the stadium itself unless there is something major like adding 15,000 seats. Then again, that would also expedite the loan payment process. In the end, instead of rent (throwing money away) they are reinvesting into themselves by paying off the stadium.

The inability to sell is what separates home ownership from from stadium ownership. It is idealistic to think that there will not be major updates required along the way that will not bring offsetting revenue. Turf is always in need of replacing and maintenance, metal oxidizes and warps, concrete shifts and cracks, employees need to be on staff to handle day to day as well as game day activities, stadiums are expensive, they require a large overhead and they have expensive upkeep which is why professional teams avoid owning them like the plague. USF pays a flat fee and then simply has to show up with zero opex, could marginally more be made by owning a stadium? Perhaps, but that is a big expenditure, with no exit strategy and obviously is not a simple answer or we would have made it by now. 

[puc86]

16 minutes ago, SquareKnight said:

2018 Stadium configuration & prices:

Assuming each seat was sold at season ticket prices (the ticket price AND the required donation to buy those season tickets). 

Tower Club: 951 seats x $1,750 = $1,664,250

Loge Cabana Seats: 66 x $2,000 = $132,000

Stadium Club (Purple Upper Level): 1,331 x $1,050 = $1,397,550

Stadium Club (Purple Lower Level): 456 x $1,050 = $478,000

Stadium Club (Red Upper Level): 144 x $800 = $115,200

Stadium Club (Red Lower Level): 1,414 x $800 = $1,131,200

Black & Gold Cabana (Upper Level): 1,158 x $500 = $579,000

Black & Gold Cabana (Lower Level): 1,967 x $500 = $983,500

Grey Sections: 2,888 x $350 = $1,010,800

Dark Blue Sections: 4,741 x $250 = $1,185,250

Green Sections: 1,277 x $300 = $383,100

Green Sections (Young Alumni): 1,277 x $120 = $153,240

Light Blue Sections: 6,094 x $120 = $731,280

Light Blue Sections (Young Alumni Plan): 3,046 x $99 = $301,554

Yellow Sections: 4,848 x $99 = $479,952

Yellow Sections (Family Plan): 1,600 x $74.75 = $119,600

Field Cabanas: 17 x $12,000 = $204,000

Tower Suites: 20 x $120,000 = $2,400,000

2018 Season Total: $13,449,476

Per Game Average: $1,921,353 (For tickets only...not including concessions or advertising revenue)

 

For 2019, UCF is ADDING 845 additional seats to the Carl B&G Cabana and all seats in the cabana are going up in price by 20%.  A few other sections are seeing a price increase as well, so the ticket revenue for 2019 will be well above $2 million per game.

I’m not exactly sure what your point is other than I may have been off from your numbers (assuming they are correct) by 20%. At the end of the day the stadium can be bringing in $20 billion dollars but when you deduct expenses and debt service it’s still making $1.5 million for an entire calendar year. So either you are misappropriating funds again, all of your audits and book keeping are completely wrong or the number of dollars that can be made by filling every seat in Spectrum and selling this much food and apparel is $1.5 million a year.

[Bull Nut]

On 7/15/2019 at 6:12 PM, MagicKnightmare said:

In 2013 UCF lost the marquee regular season game to at the time #12 South Carolina and still went on to win the conference and the (at the time) BCS bowl against Baylor. I would not trade any one of the 8 conference wins that earned us a conference championship and the game against Baylor just to say that we once upon a time beat #12 South Carolina.

 

Nobody remembers that we lost to South Carolina. Everyone remembers that we shocked the world and took down Baylor in the biggest upset of the BCS era. 

I don't remember... Just saying.

[puc86]

39 minutes ago, SquareKnight said:

One point being that Danny White is absolutely accurate when he says that UCF makes "$2 million - $3 million per game" which most USF fans seem to refuse to believe.

As for the "profit" after expenses, at 2007 ticket prices when the stadium opened, paid (non suite) attendance of about 24,000 per game is what was necessary to pay the debt service on the stadium. The 9,000 remaining seats were the profit opportunity.  At that time, the Tower Suites and Tower Club (750 stadium seats) were the only premium seating in the entire stadium.

We now have thousands of additional seats converted to higher priced premium seating.  There is ZERO doubt that UCF is making a nice profit from our OCS.

 

I have never seen anything about Danny White discussing how much UCF makes only the editorials by Bianchi on the number but the fact stilll remains that make implies net and not gross. If i buy $15 in widgets and sell them for $10 I may sell enough of them to gross a million dollars but I will have lost $340,000 in that exchange. You can’t lose money on every transaction and make it up in volume. USF could count the gross on every sale in Ray Jay if they like but if there is an equal debit that offsets that credit it has no effect on what’s made. In an entire calendar year UCF makes $1.5 million on anything related to the stadium, there isn’t anything debatable or that can be reinterpreted via semantics.

[puc86]

On 7/18/2019 at 11:15 PM, puc86 said:

https://admfin.ucf.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/13/FY18-Financial-Statements-Stadium-Corp.pdf

 

[puc86]

7 minutes ago, SquareKnight said:

That is not factually correct. There is ZERO basis for making that claim.

It is factually correct and the audit of the stadium finances is the basis for the claim. It also fits perfectly into the audit of the athletics finances so I am really not sure how you can dispute it or where the money went if it was more.