Asiantii Woulard VS. Quinton Flowers

[TromBull12]

2 hours ago, The Sheriff said:

I wouldn't call it a game management issue - it's just a talent issue - he can't connect consistently on the deep ball to an open receiver (he could get better over time - but I'm not counting on it honestly). The play calling placed Flowers in a position to light it up deep all season with how defenses stacked the box against the run. Sometimes QF would hit a home run, but most times he would overthrow the receiver by a country mile.

If I compared Flowers to athletes in other sports that people might relate to, I would say in baseball he is similar to Chris Davis. Davis either hits a home run or K's miserably - like why are you swinging at that pitch type of K. Maybe Charles Barkley would be a better comparison. Chuck could play some hoops, but man the guy couldn't shoot the three to save his life. Defenses would leave Barkley wide open and he would throw brick after brick up (kinda like Bulliever on the basketball court - Brad can't do anything from outside of 19'). Inside of three, Chuck was a beast and his shooting percentages always reflected it. Outside of three, he's like Q Flowers on the deep ball. 

So he's a sophomore college athlete who's really good but has flaws, got it. 

[JTrue]

1 minute ago, TromBull12 said:

So he's a sophomore college athlete who's really good but has flaws, got it. 

Brad hasn't been a sophomore in a loooooooong time.

[Triple B]

23 hours ago, DataBull said:

How do you think I got through the season?

 

7 hours ago, mark_my_words said:

I actually thought this was a witty come back.  Not sure why all the negative votes for banter.  Obviously you watch the games.  

Maybe you should have followed it with:

 

The board, as a whole, usually picks up witty, sharp, funny and if that was last year or 2013, seriously doubt he gets any down votes ... but saying that he had to shut his eyes to get through THIS season was neither witty, sharp nor funny ........ just hatin'.

[Triple B]

4 hours ago, Bull Dozer said:

My question is what does it take for a kid that's never played a down of college ball to take the job from a QB who just had the type of production Flowers had? What proves he's unquestionably better between now and the opener? 

It's unanswerable so it's devolved into trying to tear down the year QF had with hyperbole and nonsense ... and I'm not one that's jumping Wanky ahead of our other notable qb's but to try and downplay what he did this year is fairly ridiculous.

[The Sheriff]

Trip: If Woulard puts on a passing clinic at the Spring game against our defense (which he's capable of doing) and QF is his typical self (because I doubt our coordinator will stack the box against Q), it should be worth considering the change then and there. Hey, I get it, Q had a great season - however he has considerable flaws which will get exposed by a team with a good run defense. Do we sacrifice an early season game against FSU in a sold out RayJ to play kumbaya with the incumbent QB or do we let the best player have the rock against a team that can make or break our season? I'm rolling with the best talent. 

[Breedwell]

6 hours ago, The Sheriff said:

. I would rank QF the fourth best QB this program has had - regardless of the season's records. He's the QB that made due with the most weapons at his disposal (three very good running backs) - couple that with watered down competition-

On a different note, you do realize Matt Grothe is the #1 all time Big East yardage leader. BJ Daniels is #3 all time. And we're talking about some great QB's that played in the Big East - Donovan McNabb, Gino Torreta, both Hasselback brothers, Brian St. Pierre, Brian Brohm, Ken Dorsey, Geno Smith, Marc Bolger, Alex Van Pelt and Pat White (I'm sure there are more). 

Flowers has the benefit of better running backs and good running back depth, yes, but I don't think the competition was all that watered down. He played against a very good Memphis, Temple, and Navy team this year (all of which ranked at one point, regardless of their bowl game shortcomings), as well as a decent FSU team. That's 5 quality opponents (granted, we only beat one of them), plus we did beat bowl-eligible UConn and all-over-the--place Cincy. 

BJ's best two years in terms of who we played  were 2009 and 2010- in 2009 he beat eventual 7-6 FSU and 9-4 WVU (who lost to FSU, if you want to define that pecking order that year). 2009 we got spanked by all of the "good" teams (Pitt, Cincy, Miami, Butgers). In 2010 we had no real "signature" victories, and 2011 we beat ND at ND, but they were pedestrian that season (and we inevitably went 5-7). 

BJ's best statistical year is 2011- he went 215/365 (58.9%) for 2604 passing yards, 132 rushes for 601 yards (4.6 YPC), with 13 TDs, 7 INTs, and 6 rushing TDs. 3205 APY.

Averaged out, BJ had a career 57.3%in passing, 2100 yards passing per season (we'll omit 2008 the numbers are so tiny) and 517 rush yards a season. So, 2600 APY per season.
(http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/bj-daniels-1.html)

I'm not properly able to bring the other two into the mix, admittedly I've only been a bull since 2010. But I'll look up Matt Grothe really quick to figure out which season was his best from a numbers perspective:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/matt-grothe-1.html

I'd say toss 2009, use his averages to compile data:

Grothe's best season was 2008, in which he went 240/380 (63.2%) for 2911 yards, 18 TDs 14 INT. Also rushed 146 times for 591 yds (4 ypc) for 4 TDs... this in a total of 13 games.  Equates to 3542 total yards. 

Grothe's other 2 full seasons, he went for 3502 and 3198 total yards, respectfully, bringing his three year total to 10242, an average of  3414 yards per season. 

Grothe also averaged 3.96 ypc and 695 rushing yards with 2719 passing yards.

 

Let's look at Flowers, keeping in mind he's only had one full season:

(http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/quinton-flowers-1.html)

13 games, 162/275 (58.9%), 2290 passing yards for 22 TDs 8 INTs, with 191 rushes for 991 yards (per sports-reference) 

 

I'll complete this later, break time. 

1 hour ago, The Sheriff said:

Trip: If Woulard puts on a passing clinic at the Spring game against our defense (which he's capable of doing) and QF is his typical self (because I doubt our coordinator will stack the box against Q), it should be worth considering the change then and there. Hey, I get it, Q had a great season - however he has considerable flaws which will get exposed by a team with a good run defense. Do we sacrifice an early season game against FSU in a sold out RayJ to play kumbaya with the incumbent QB or do we let the best player have the rock against a team that can make or break our season? I'm rolling with the best talent. 

 

[Triple B]

1 hour ago, The Sheriff said:

Trip: If Woulard puts on a passing clinic at the Spring game against our defense (which he's capable of doing) and QF is his typical self (because I doubt our coordinator will stack the box against Q), it should be worth considering the change then and there. Hey, I get it, Q had a great season - however he has considerable flaws which will get exposed by a team with a good run defense. Do we sacrifice an early season game against FSU in a sold out RayJ to play kumbaya with the incumbent QB or do we let the best player have the rock against a team that can make or break our season? I'm rolling with the best talent. 

Terry, look, I'm not saying that AW's not a better option in the long run because I don't know ... nobody knows. All I do know ... well not know, per se but you get my drift ... is that QF's not losing the job in practice. If he totally stinks the joint up against Towson and NIU, I hope the coaching staff, at the very least, takes a long look at other options going into FSU ...... but it's way too premature, IMO, be talking about anything before we see how Flowers comes out next year

[Breedwell]

33 minutes ago, Breedwell said:

Flowers has the benefit of better running backs and good running back depth, yes, but I don't think the competition was all that watered down. He played against a very good Memphis, Temple, and Navy team this year (all of which ranked at one point, regardless of their bowl game shortcomings), as well as a decent FSU team. That's 5 quality opponents (granted, we only beat one of them), plus we did beat bowl-eligible UConn and all-over-the--place Cincy. 

BJ's best two years in terms of who we played  were 2009 and 2010- in 2009 he beat eventual 7-6 FSU and 9-4 WVU (who lost to FSU, if you want to define that pecking order that year). 2009 we got spanked by all of the "good" teams (Pitt, Cincy, Miami, Butgers). In 2010 we had no real "signature" victories, and 2011 we beat ND at ND, but they were pedestrian that season (and we inevitably went 5-7). 

BJ's best statistical year is 2011- he went 215/365 (58.9%) for 2604 passing yards, 132 rushes for 601 yards (4.6 YPC), with 13 TDs, 7 INTs, and 6 rushing TDs. 3205 APY.

Averaged out, BJ had a career 57.3%in passing, 2100 yards passing per season (we'll omit 2008 the numbers are so tiny) and 517 rush yards a season. So, 2600 APY per season.
(http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/bj-daniels-1.html)

I'm not properly able to bring the other two into the mix, admittedly I've only been a bull since 2010. But I'll look up Matt Grothe really quick to figure out which season was his best from a numbers perspective:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/matt-grothe-1.html

I'd say toss 2009, use his averages to compile data:

Grothe's best season was 2008, in which he went 240/380 (63.2%) for 2911 yards, 18 TDs 14 INT. Also rushed 146 times for 591 yds (4 ypc) for 4 TDs... this in a total of 13 games.  Equates to 3542 total yards. 

Grothe's other 2 full seasons, he went for 3502 and 3198 total yards, respectfully, bringing his three year total to 10242, an average of  3414 yards per season. 

Grothe also averaged 3.96 ypc and 695 rushing yards with 2719 passing yards.

 

Let's look at Flowers, keeping in mind he's only had one full season:

(http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/quinton-flowers-1.html)

13 games, 162/275 (58.9%), 2290 passing yards for 22 TDs 8 INTs, with 191 rushes for 991 yards (per sports-reference) 

 

I'll complete this later, break time. 

 

To finish my thoughts: 

Flowers amassed 3281 all-purpose yards his rookie season (not counting 2014), alongside 34 total TDs and 8 INTs. How many fumbles did he have? I don't think it was many, if any.

So, stat-wise Grothe is truthfully the name to beat, however, Flowers has a legitimate chance to match his numbers. But Flowers' numbers are overall better than BJ's. 

1 hour ago, The Sheriff said:

Hey, I get it, Q had a great season - however he has considerable flaws which will get exposed by a team with a good run defense. Do we sacrifice an early season game against FSU in a sold out RayJ to play kumbaya with the incumbent QB or do we let the best player have the rock against a team that can make or break our season? I'm rolling with the best talent. 

Experience matters. I'd say the triangle in sports is talent, experience, and physicality. That is, the body or the size or whatever for the position. 

• Flowers isn't as tall or big as Woulard, but Flowers' height didn't seem to affect him all that much. Flowers is also plenty fast enough and has enough stamina to run high-tempo and make plays. 
• Flowers has played a full year of college football, including a bowl game and in higher-pressure situations (against top-25 talent, unfavorable conditions like in ECU, playing in places like Doak Campbell, etc). Woulard hasn't seen real action since high school, and that's a different type of game with disparity in talent levels. 
• Woulard appears to be more talented. Better arm strength, maybe better decision-making. Perhaps so much so that experience begins to matter less. 

If which is the case, well, we'll see what happens. This is a fantastic problem to have.  however, I don't think we can take the team away from Flowers- he made this team his through leadership and willpower throughout the season. I think taking the team away from him without giving him a chance to lose it would be a disservice to his effort and set a bad precedence. 

I think if he comes out and looks bad against Towson and NIU, then maybe Woulard deserves some consideration. It should be Flowers' position- and team- to lose. 

[Who'sYourData?]

3 hours ago, Triple B said:

 

The board, as a whole, usually picks up witty, sharp, funny and if that was last year or 2013, seriously doubt he gets any down votes ... but saying that he had to shut his eyes to get through THIS season was neither witty, sharp nor funny ........ just hatin'.

Says the president of the CWT Fan Club, that doesn't appreciate good humor.

[gullibull]

I do not know who will start but if QF is our QB all season we will have a tough season. Anyone that watched this season and thinks he has a good arm is delusional. Teams don't have to work to make him one dimensional he is one dimensional. I'll say it straight up QF will not take this team to the next level. He seems like a good kid and he is a good athlete but unless we are switching to the option I don't see it. If I'm wrong I'll take the heat but I doubt it.