What's more critical to vitality of program?

[Apis Bull]

54 minutes ago, The Sheriff said:

And this is the problem with our society today (and I get it - my thinking and mentality was part of the problem). I relate it to my living situation when I was in my early 30's. Years ago when I was single, I had two nice rides (a Boxster and a Z4), yet if I met some broad in a bar and wanted to show her my Bulls, I was bringing her back to a duplex that I rented from some schmuck with one of my college roommates (five years after graduating from USF). It was all about instant gratifications... gotta have the nice rides.

Now, married with two kids, I'd be willing to say I have one of the nicest views in all of San Antonio sitting twenty seven floors above the Riverwalk, however I'm also sporting two mini-vans and the days of owning BMW's and Porsche's are sidelined for at least the next two decades.

IPF's are for recruits that are looking for glitz and glamour. **** that. I remember working out underneath the Sun Dome when I played here. When you're killing yourself in the gym next to your teammate, you're not thinking about how nice the facility is that you're training in - you're thinking about surviving the workout (and you also have the underdog mentality because you appreciate what you have). Yes, we experienced some weather delays from time to time, but not enough creating a detriment to the program. If anything, as physical as practices were, having walk-thru's in the rec center allowed our bodies to heal when we had those weather delays.

Build the OCS first. There's nothing better than sitting outside on my front deck and watching the sunset in the evening... From. My. Home. Not some friend's house. Not a bar. My. Home. Home is where the heart is. Build the on campus stadium. Let the guys deal with mini-vans for now (if the LRS facility is considered a mini-van - sign me up please). We have nice on-campus facilities - we need a stadium on campus.  

 

That's not the worst analogy I've ever read, but it's close.

[Bull94]

12 hours ago, TRUTH D. Antagonist said:

no idea. the better question is what does their lease at RayJay look like? what, if anything, does it cost USF when the time comes for Ray Jay to be renovated?

do people actually think Ray Jay will always be the same "good deal" ? are we really best served tying the interests of our program to the Bucs' use of an aging Ray Jay as their stadium? cuz Ray Jay instantly goes from "experience playing in a pro stadium (with seat backs for the fans!)" as its primary draw in lieu of an OCS, to being an old piece of **** with red seats & an inexplicable pirate ship if the Bucs ever do leave...

or conversely the rent goes up to fit the bill for renovations, at which point it's like paying for an engine swap on an Enterprise rental. 

we're talking about the future here, not just next year.

apples & oranges. The Swamp is an OCS. paying to renovate an OCS makes sense. paying to renovate an off-campus pro stadium does not. & this isn't a historic building we're talking about... It's not Lambeau or Soldier Field.

 

Ray Jay is now one of the older stadiums in the NFL, which currently have a life span of 30 years.

https://money.cnn.com/2014/09/08/news/companies/nfl-stadiums/index.html

 

when was the last time you were in ray jay? all new clubs and suites. new video boards. part of a $150M + renovation. didn't cost us a dime. what do you think would be the debt service on a $150M stadium? it would be a terrible "investment" and we haven't done it because we don't need to do it unlike those other schools.

https://www.wfla.com/sports/buccaneers/buccaneers-unveil-150-million-renovations-to-raymond-james-stadium_20180227110518114/994869609

[Ned A Starr RIP]

4 hours ago, The Sheriff said:

And this is the problem with our society today (and I get it - my thinking and mentality was part of the problem). I relate it to my living situation when I was in my early 30's. Years ago when I was single, I had two nice rides (a Boxster and a Z4), yet if I met some broad in a bar and wanted to show her my Bulls, I was bringing her back to a duplex that I rented from some schmuck with one of my college roommates (five years after graduating from USF). It was all about instant gratifications... gotta have the nice rides.

Now, married with two kids, I'd be willing to say I have one of the nicest views in all of San Antonio sitting twenty seven floors above the Riverwalk, however I'm also sporting two mini-vans and the days of owning BMW's and Porsche's are sidelined for at least the next two decades.

IPF's are for recruits that are looking for glitz and glamour. **** that. I remember working out underneath the Sun Dome when I played here. When you're killing yourself in the gym next to your teammate, you're not thinking about how nice the facility is that you're training in - you're thinking about surviving the workout (and you also have the underdog mentality because you appreciate what you have). Yes, we experienced some weather delays from time to time, but not enough creating a detriment to the program. If anything, as physical as practices were, having walk-thru's in the rec center allowed our bodies to heal when we had those weather delays.

Build the OCS first. There's nothing better than sitting outside on my front deck and watching the sunset in the evening... From. My. Home. Not some friend's house. Not a bar. My. Home. Home is where the heart is. Build the on campus stadium. Let the guys deal with mini-vans for now (if the LRS facility is considered a mini-van - sign me up please). We have nice on-campus facilities - we need a stadium on campus.  

 

If you were going to come to Tampa for 6/7 Bulls home games a year, would you stay at a luxury hotel in Downtown or would you take out a mortgage on a mobile home on Dale Mabry?

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by NAS Gone to Paradise

[Brad]

4 hours ago, The Sheriff said:

Build the OCS first. There's nothing better than sitting outside on my front deck and watching the sunset in the evening... From. My. Home. Not some friend's house. Not a bar. My. Home. Home is where the heart is. Build the on campus stadium. Let the guys deal with mini-vans for now (if the LRS facility is considered a mini-van - sign me up please). We have nice on-campus facilities - we need a stadium on campus.  

A-ha, great minds think alike.  

Were I the AD, that is the tack this program would take. Hence the poll/question. The program needs the OCS over the IPF. 

Long term it’s the right move.  Maybe not the easy one, but the right one. 

[Brad]

15 minutes ago, NAS Gone to Paradise said:

If you were going to come to Tampa for 6/7 Bulls home games a year, would you stay at a luxury hotel in Downtown or would you take out a mortgage on a mobile home on Dale Mabry?

 

I’d stay as close to campus as possible.   

[Rocky Style]

3 hours ago, Bull94 said:

when was the last time you were in ray jay? all new clubs and suites. new video boards. part of a $150M + renovation. didn't cost us a dime. what do you think would be the debt service on a $150M stadium? it would be a terrible "investment" and we haven't done it because we don't need to do it unlike those other schools.

https://www.wfla.com/sports/buccaneers/buccaneers-unveil-150-million-renovations-to-raymond-james-stadium_20180227110518114/994869609

I am sure the 35k cheering UCF fans totally enjoyed those fancy amenities as we punted away the season.

[Bull94]

9 minutes ago, Rocky Style said:

I am sure the 35k cheering UCF fans totally enjoyed those fancy amenities as we punted away the season.

they've taken way worse beatings from us.

fact is their stadium holds 20k less fans. that makes a huge difference in revenue when you can sell those seats for a big game like FSU, UCF, UF, etc.

the debt on their facilities also limits what they can do schedule wise. they can't do a 2 for 1 vs UF because they need 7 home games to pay their debt.

[BullyPulpit]

6 minutes ago, Brad said:

A-ha, great minds think alike.  

Were I the AD, that is the tack this program would take. Hence the poll/question. The program needs the OCS over the IPF. 

Long term it’s the right move.  Maybe not the easy one, but the right one. 

The problem is that it is a potentially dangerous move given the current state of sports attendance, our current conference affiliation, and the clear, front-running nature of our fan base and Tampa sports fans in general. The type of project that is being considered (around $250 million or so) is a massive financial investment for a program that just doesn't have the revenues, donation base, and corporate support that would be required to service the debt on that project. I am well aware of the chicken and the egg argument that is often made in situations such as this, but I wouldn't feel confident in the program taking out $250 million in bonds to support the building of the stadium at this point in time.

Let's say it would cost roughly $15 million annually to service a $250 million construction bond. The feasibility study estimated that USF would generate an additional $10 million annually in revenues over what they currently generate under the Raymond James deal. This estimate is based upon a sold-out, capacity stadium, seat donations, parking, concessions, corporate sponsorship, etc. Even assuming that we would be able to sell out the 35,000 seats and that the costs of running the stadium would be equivalent to the current costs of renting Ray Jay, and the extra revenue was a pure net gain, where exactly is that extra $5 million going to come from to service the construction bond? I suppose the AAC's new TV deal could help with some of those expenses, but the fact of the matter remains that there would likely be a $5 million annual shortfall even when the stadium is at capacity. The only safe way to ensure that the debt service is met would be to increase student fees. Assuming 50,000 students averaging 22.5 credit hours per year, that would require an additional fee of $4.44 per credit hour to make up the shortfall. Currently, that figure is $14.46 per credit hour. I don't think USF is going to be willing to impose a 31% Athletic Fee increase in order to fund an OCS in the current climate. 

Keep in mind that the IPF (at an estimated cost of $15 million) can be constructed well before the overall USF Football Center (an additional $25 million expense). As of June 2018 there had been about $9 million or so raised toward the $40 million in overall expense and USF still has yet to break ground on the project, which means they are worried about trying to service debt on just $30 million in bonds (roughly $1.8 million per year). So, while I agree that an OCS would be more desirable, I don't know that it is the right move for the University at this moment. Get the IPF built, then, hopefully shortly thereafter, the entire Football Center, and then aggressively look towards making an OCS a reality. 

 

[raptorcj]

Right or wrong, my logic is get the IPF first to attract & motivate the players in hopes they'll build more camaraderie, practice more, play better, get more W's, and attract more fans...then go build the OCS and amp up the environment.

[George_Bullnard_Shaw]

32 minutes ago, BullyPulpit said:

The problem is that it is a potentially dangerous move given the current state of sports attendance, our current conference affiliation, and the clear, front-running nature of our fan base and Tampa sports fans in general. The type of project that is being considered (around $250 million or so) is a massive financial investment for a program that just doesn't have the revenues, donation base, and corporate support that would be required to service the debt on that project. I am well aware of the chicken and the egg argument that is often made in situations such as this, but I wouldn't feel confident in the program taking out $250 million in bonds to support the building of the stadium at this point in time.

 

 

 

I keep saying it but there is a demographic tidal wave in progress that makes an OCS stadium a very risky proposition when we have the ability to lease the tax payers gift to the Glasers.

Younger people are into different things. Full Sail is building a massive E-Sports venue. There is discussion here at USF about them stealing our thunder. I do not believe future generations are going to support live athletics the way the old homogeneous generations that went to land grant colleges did. Even the professional sports prognosticators feel there is going to be a time when all pro sports are played in small venues for the primary purpose of tv as the in person attendance continues shrinking.