What's more critical to vitality of program?

[Triple B]

1 minute ago, Bull94 said:

not arguing for or against but it will take Cal almost 100 years to pay off a stadium renovation.

https://deadspin.com/the-desperate-future-of-cal-athletics-is-here-1797944572

The athletics program at the University of California, Berkeley, in, say, 2037 will barely resemble what you see today. And the hammer is already starting to fall.

 

Cal owes its dire fortunes to a disastrous stadium-remodeling boondoggle, which the athletic department will be paying for until 2113. Right now, they owe $18 million per year, and that’s only on the interest payments. Once they start paying off the principal, that number will spike to $26 million annually and keep rising for a while.

So they didn't go broke and it wasn't building an ocs .... other than that, spot on.

[Bull94]

couple of bloomberg articles about how much debt college football teams are in in large part due to stadium renovations.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-01-04/college-football-s-top-teams-are-built-on-crippling-debt

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/special-reports/college-football

[Bull94]

7 minutes ago, Triple B said:

So they didn't go broke and it wasn't building an ocs .... other than that, spot on.

I get renovating isn't actually building but I'm sure you know that renovating is cheaper right?

I know you're into semantics .

and yes the athletic department is going broke .

just read how in debt some of the top athletic departments in the country are right now due to ocs renovations and how revenues including tv money will be dropping.

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20170226/NEWS/170229865/splitting-audience-could-make-ums-240-million-athletics-debt-a

[Triple B]

7 minutes ago, Bull94 said:

I get renovating isn't actually building but I'm sure you know that renovating is cheaper right?

I know you're into semantics .

and yes the athletic department is going broke .

just read how in debt some of the top athletic departments in the country are right now due to ocs renovations and how revenues including tv money will be dropping.

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20170226/NEWS/170229865/splitting-audience-could-make-ums-240-million-athletics-debt-a

So the answer to the question which universities have gone broke building an ocs is still none. This isn't about semantics, it's about making ill informed comments about the situation ......... and I'm not even in the "need an ocs" camp.

[Bull94]

3 minutes ago, Triple B said:

So the answer to the question which universities have gone broke building an ocs is still none. This isn't about semantics, it's about making ill informed comments about the situation ......... and I'm not even in the "need an ocs" camp.

 

It's not ill informed. what's ill informed is thinking that universities are the ones who take on the debt to build the stadium. athletic departments are borrowing at alarming rates. they are seperate from the schools.I guess you are one of those go into debt at all costs type of people. most  athletic departments would be insolvent without student fees and loans from the academic side. technically universities don't build or own the stadium.It's why Cal Berkeley is taking on all that debt from the athletic department. The athletic department ,who renovated the stadium, is broke.

you do realize that just because you have current cash flows to service your debt(even if you have to borrow that money from the academic side) doesn't mean that the leverage you incurred won't catch up to you.

It's like saying I am going to max out my credit card because I can afford to pay the minimum monthly payment. eventually it will catch up to you. and then going to your parents and asking for help paying it off.

[Triple B]

1 hour ago, Triple B said:

So the answer to the question which universities have gone broke building an ocs is still none. This isn't about semantics, it's about making ill informed comments about the situation ......... and I'm not even in the "need an ocs" camp.

 

52 minutes ago, Bull94 said:

It's not ill informed.

Just to clarify, I was not calling your comments ill informed, just the melodramatic one that I replied to that started this. Your comments were very well informed, just irrelevant to my original question ....

[El_Toro_86]

• 
   

 

Let’s assume we stay in our current situation for the foreseeable future.  Is it possible to expand Corbett  to say a 35-40k football stadium?  Will the infrastructure handle it and is there space?  I really don’t know.  If it’s possible, this may be a way to get our games on campus without building a new OCS.  It would be dual purpose and be home to soccer and football.  

Just asking.

[George_Bullnard_Shaw]

18 hours ago, Bull94 said:

not arguing for or against but it will take Cal almost 100 years to pay off a stadium renovation.

https://deadspin.com/the-desperate-future-of-cal-athletics-is-here-1797944572

The athletics program at the University of California, Berkeley, in, say, 2037 will barely resemble what you see today. And the hammer is already starting to fall.

 

Cal owes its dire fortunes to a disastrous stadium-remodeling boondoggle, which the athletic department will be paying for until 2113. Right now, they owe $18 million per year, and that’s only on the interest payments. Once they start paying off the principal, that number will spike to $26 million annually and keep rising for a while.

It would be rare for a U to go "broke", but the money spent and the debt service can easily cripple the university in its ability to advance its raison d'etre, academics.

[BullyPulpit]

23 hours ago, Brad said:

So how does an IPF and Football Center (~$40 million) benefit the program?  So far, I’ve heard we can escape the weather a few times a year (or maybe about as many times as there would be home games in an OCS).

@BullyPulpit thanks for your analysis, no one is arguing facts around cost and debt.  

But it seems the $40 million we don’t have suffers nowhere near the scrutiny of the $200-250 million we don’t have and it will not generate ANY income whatsoever.  Nor will it advance the program (unless we can out-amenity the big boys).

As for as the IPF/Football Center, I would use the analogy that it is the difference between being a 1 or 2-star hotel and a 3 or 4-star hotel. You would probably never consider staying at a 1 star hotel, but you would consider a 3+ star hotel. Sure, we would all love to stay at a plush 5-star hotel, but you can live with the comforts of a 3 or 4 star hotel. We are trying to get our amenities to the point that those borderline 4 star players will consider attending USF. Anything you can do to make that a reality will help.

I agree that the total cost for the project is high and USF likely can barely afford it. But we can service the debt on the IPF/Football Center without mortgaging the program. We can't say the same about an OCS. Lets not lose sight of the fact that Raymond James is still a pretty darn cool place for a 16-18 year-old recruit to visit and consider. I am sure many players throughout the years have at least factored the amenities and prestige of playing in a NFL stadium into the equation. My understanding is also that the Football Center will be able to generate at least some revenue, hosting corporate gatherings and functions. This might help offset some of the costs associated with the project. 

We can't just continue to sit by and watch other programs pass us on the field and in facilities. We have to be trying to continue to grow. Right now, we might only be able to afford a Toyota Corrola, and hopefully one day we can afford the Lamborghini. 

 

[BullyPulpit]

22 hours ago, Triple B said:

So they didn't go broke and it wasn't building an ocs .... other than that, spot on.

Did you read the article? The athletic department is in financial shambles, thanks in large part to the debt service on the football stadium, and they are considering ending the men's soccer and track and field programs so they can convert that stadium into housing. They are a P5 with a large and active donor base and they can't afford to service the $18 million in interest on the $321 million in renovations.