Quinton flowers

[Flowers4Heisman]

I'm Flowers fan now. He's improving week to week. And he's really mentally tough. He can take us to a bowl this year -if he keeps on improving and makes more good plays than bad plays.

[MMW]

That moment you realize Grothe threw to 2 guys that played in the NFL... 

Grothe had WR's to throw too but I don't think he had any tight ends like we do now and he has no run support.  He was our running game. 

My point is he had to put the game on his shoulders every week and if you pressured him and took away his run option we were in a tough spot.

When we have three running backs in and they are all better that what Grothe had it makes it a challenge for defenses.  

Comparing Grothe to Flowers apples to oranges.  They are asked to do different things.

 

[JTrue]

First of all, the racism statement is complete nonsense. Second, where in the world are you getting your numbers from??

1. Grothe had 9 passing TDs through his first 7 games and 7 INTs not 8 and 8. He also added 7 rushing TDs during his first 7 games. So he had 16 total TDs vs 7 INTs.
2. How many of those 137 attempts are the jet sweep which is 100% completion percentage for Flowers? 25? 30? Say he actually throws the ball downfield on those and his completion percentage which is worse than Grothe's in the chart above ends up being even lower.
3. Flowers has 14 total TDs (10 passing) vs 6 INTs (wrong number in the chart again). 
4. Grothe had 1,388 yards passing through 7 games in 165 attempts. Comes out to a 8.41 yards per attempt.He also completed 104 of his first 165 pass attempts. Comes out to a 63% for completions. 
5. Grothe's record through his first 7 games was 5-2.
6. Flowers has completed 83/137 for 1,046 yards which comes out to be a 7.635 yards per attempt.

So here is the REAL break down.

Completion %: Grothe 104 completed, 165 attempted pases = 63% 

                      Flowers 83 completed, 137 attempted passes = 60.5%

Pass Yards:    Grothe 1,388 yards

                      Flowers 1,046 yards 

Yards/Att.:      Grothe 8.41

                      Flowers 7.635

Record:          Grothe 5-2

                     Flowers 3-3* Let's be honest, would be 3-4 had Taggart ran him out there for the final possession of the SMU game.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/173139/year/2006/matt-grothe

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/3139591/quinton-flowers

http://espn.go.com/college-football/boxscore?gameId=400547712

Good try though. I really like what I've seen out of Flowers. Every game Taggart seems to trust him more and Flowers has rewarded him by playing really well. You obviously got way ahead of yourself above, or purposely fudged numbers. 

 

 

 

 

Here are the stats for Grothe that I care about. His being white has nothing to do with it.

2006

#7 WVU 

2007

#17 Auburn

#5 WVU

2008

#11 Kansas

 

[Bulls1181]

Grothe was our leader in the 'golden age' of USF Football. You can't really compare at this point...

Flowers is improving game after game. He is playing with confidence and swagger. 

[2000bull]

Who were the 2 nfl WRs? Mitchell and who was the other?

[JTrue]

Who were the 2 nfl WRs? Mitchell and who was the other?

Let's see, he got to throw to Mitchell who was a freshman and maybe BJ warming up?

[Capital H]

First of all, the racism statement is complete nonsense. Second, where in the world are you getting your numbers from??

1. Grothe had 9 passing TDs through his first 7 games and 7 INTs not 8 and 8. He also added 7 rushing TDs during his first 7 games. So he had 16 total TDs vs 7 INTs.
2. How many of those 137 attempts are the jet sweep which is 100% completion percentage for Flowers? 25? 30? Say he actually throws the ball downfield on those and his completion percentage which is worse than Grothe's in the chart above ends up being even lower.
3. Flowers has 14 total TDs (10 passing) vs 6 INTs (wrong number in the chart again). 
4. Grothe had 1,388 yards passing through 7 games in 165 attempts. Comes out to a 8.41 yards per attempt.He also completed 104 of his first 165 pass attempts. Comes out to a 63% for completions. 
5. Grothe's record through his first 7 games was 5-2.
6. Flowers has completed 83/137 for 1,046 yards which comes out to be a 7.635 yards per attempt.

So here is the REAL break down.

Completion %: Grothe 104 completed, 165 attempted pases = 63% 

                      Flowers 83 completed, 137 attempted passes = 60.5%

Pass Yards:    Grothe 1,388 yards

                      Flowers 1,046 yards 

Yards/Att.:      Grothe 8.41

                      Flowers 7.635

Record:          Grothe 5-2

                     Flowers 3-3* Let's be honest, would be 3-4 had Taggart ran him out there for the final possession of the SMU game.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/173139/year/2006/matt-grothe

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/3139591/quinton-flowers

http://espn.go.com/college-football/boxscore?gameId=400547712

Good try though. I really like what I've seen out of Flowers. Every game Taggart seems to trust him more and Flowers has rewarded him by playing really well. You obviously got way ahead of yourself above, or purposely fudged numbers. 

 

 

 

 

You can't read. I said starts not games. Grothe came in on relief duty of Pat Julmiste in his first appearance. Even if you include that first game instead of the atrocious 7th start Matt had (versus Cincy) they are VERY SIMILAR. Competition is pretty even as well, arguably Flowers has had a tougher schedule to this point in their careers. Like another poster said Grothe thrived on bubble screens and made his share of dumb mistakes (his pick versus FIU almost lost us that game).

Update your numbers after the next game (when Matt's stinker vs. Cincy would be included) and we are right back to my #'s, unless Flowers gets hurt.

All numbers I cite are from sports-reference.com game logs.

Stand by my statement if Flowers is white the sub-conscious would favor supporting him instead of trashing him.

 

EDIT: In his rookie year Grothe had no RB's, but I would take the WR core from back then any day of the week. The overrated Amp Hill would be our best receiver today and he finished like 6th on the team in receptions

Edited October 18, 2015 by Capital H

[deters-]

Who were the 2 nfl WRs? Mitchell and who was the other?

Zero. Because every WR in that period never did a **** thing in the NFL. Grothe had some quality college WR to toss to but they also were plagued with drops just like last 5 years worth. They were better threats, but I think that is due to offense moreso than talent. Grothe was a gunslinger and tossed the rock under normal QB load. Flowers is a guy you limit his throws because its his weakness in his game. Grothe could do both, and do both well. Only downside to Grothe was he never got over his INT bug. Didn't fail at progression, but his risk taking hurt us often. I didn't mind it though because he was so dynamic. Grothe was a gamer, fighter and a leader. Hes the type of QB that T.O. would cry for. Flowers has progressed but he isn't in the same caliber as Grothe.

[deters-]

You can't read. I said starts not games. Grothe came in on relief duty of Pat Julmiste in his first appearance. Even if you include that first game instead of the atrocious 7th start Matt had (versus Cincy) they are VERY SIMILAR. Competition is pretty even as well, arguably Flowers has had a tougher schedule to this point in their careers. Like another poster said Grothe thrived on bubble screens and made his share of dumb mistakes (his pick versus FIU almost lost us that game).

Update your numbers after the next game (when Matt's stinker vs. Cincy would be included) and we are right back to my #'s, unless Flowers gets hurt.

All numbers I cite are from sports-reference.com game logs.

Stand by my statement if Flowers is white the sub-conscious would favor supporting him instead of trashing him.

GTFO with that race baiting ********. 

[Capital H]

GTFO with that race baiting ********. 

Not race baiting. Its human nature. I would understand it in the NFL. Black QB's dont win championships in the NFL. In College its a different story. I am a 27 year old White Republican by the way. Just calling it like I see it.