MIAMI & the NCAA Situation

[Gismo]

Hurricane mutiny,

CanesFan77 said:

Funny how with all the allegations of giving money, cars,parties,strippers,etc, the NCAA could only come up with $170k of gifts in an 8 year period. Maybe it was more, maybe it wasnt. Only proof is from a guy rotting in a jail cell who was hoping to sell his story for a book deal to come up with money to pay back some of his victims. A story of a rogue booster spending less than 10k a year isnt going to be making the NYT Best Sellers list anytime soon...

ONLY (lol) $170,000 is the monetary value of the gifts according to CanesFan77.

8 is the number of years over which it was given/spent according to CanesFan77.

But, less than $10,000 spent by the booster per year for 8 years, concluded CanesFan77.

But I think what you are saying is that the picture is more like he spent a very large sum over only two or three seasons, and a very small sum the other seasons. Like 160k spent between 3 and 10k split between 5? Is that what you are trying to say?

Take the median instead of the average be the median would be less than 10k. Actually, for most things I think the median is more representative of the norm.

But 170k, c'mon, the violations were outrageous. Even if only happened for one year, but the university gave this guy access to the team for nearly a decade.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Gismo

[Hurricane Mutiny]

Hurricane mutiny,

CanesFan77 said:

Funny how with all the allegations of giving money, cars,parties,strippers,etc, the NCAA could only come up with $170k of gifts in an 8 year period. Maybe it was more, maybe it wasnt. Only proof is from a guy rotting in a jail cell who was hoping to sell his story for a book deal to come up with money to pay back some of his victims. A story of a rogue booster spending less than 10k a year isnt going to be making the NYT Best Sellers list anytime soon...

ONLY (lol) $170,000 is the monetary value of the gifts according to CanesFan77.

8 is the number of years over which it was given/spent according to CanesFan77.

But, less than $10,000 spent by the booster per year for 8 years, concluded CanesFan77.

But I think what you are saying is that the picture is more like he spent a very large sum over only two or three seasons, and a very small sum the other seasons. Like 160k spent between 3 and 10k split between 5? Is that what you are trying to say?

Take the median instead of the average be the median would be less than 10k. Actually, for most things I think the median is more representative of the norm.

But 170k, c'mon, the violations were outrageous. Even if only happened for one year, but the university gave this guy access to the team for nearly a decade.

 

 

 

 

You make a fair point on the number 8, and I'll admit my mistake.  I certainly thought that the number 8 was related to the number of UM players suspended, but I could see it as the number of years too.

 

The point that I made, though, is still relevant.  Over half of the money that makes up the "$170K" total is related to two players he apparently steered to the agency he was a silent partner in.  The conclusion is still a fair point, since those two players, while still a part of the overall allegations, constitute VERY DIFFERENT kinds of benefits, and justifications for benefits.

 

Here's an example.  A few years back, Tank Black bought a certain UF player a Hummer before the final bowl game, and then the player signed with Tank.  Now, let's say Tank provided small benefits, say a few meals, to a dozen other UF players.  The fact remains that the AVERAGE of all the benefits provided would look enormous, since there was one huge expenditure made for one player to sign with his agency.

 

Also, let's not forget...while I am in no way, shape, or form trying to rationalize what that scumbag Shapiro did, the reality of the large gifts to the two agency signees is that the TIMING was the real problem.  If Shapiro had provided those benefits LATER, such as after all eligibility is used/forfeited and the player has been drafted and signed by the agent, then there is no problem.  This kind of thing happens ALL THE TIME.  I hate that it happened, I hate Shapiro, and I'm very pissed off at the two players, but in the end, if they really believed that Shapiro was going to look out for their best interests, then they were probably going to sign with his agency anyhow, and he was eventually going to compensate them anyhow.

 

Look, I agree with the premise of cleaning up college athletics.  A buddy of mine directed the 30-for-30 documentary "Broke".  Athletes are being taken advantage of in egregious ways and it's sickening.  But it doesn't take 4 or 5 years for a scumbag to gain the confidence of a 22-year old college athlete.  Some agents make a lasting impression over a weekend or an in-person presentation.  The "Shapiro method" of trying to ingratiate himself with athletes has no guarantees (the loser only signed 2 UM players over 8 years) and there's always someone else around the corner who might make bigger promises (the Rosenhaus brothers).

 

Anyhow, skipping down to your final point...the "University" did not give the guy access to the team for nearly a decade.  That's just a ridiculous conclusion.

 

I'm a 3x alum of UM, I'm a Hurricane Club member, a season ticket holder.  There have always been major controls over access.  At the same time, you are dealing with people who are adults and who can do what they want on their own time.

 

When I go to the UM campus, there are limitations on where I can go within the Hecht Athletic Center.  That is true even for friends of mine who give more money than I do (such as my very good friend who is the CEO of a moderately well-known company, and who was on a recent episode of Undercover Boss).  While at Joe Robbie Stadium (which is not a UM-owned facility), access to certain areas is dictated by your tickets.  Thus, if you buy a suite (even though some of the money goes to the Hurricane Club), you have a handful of tickets that allow people to access your suite (which is what happened with certain recruits).  None of the minimum-wage employees at Joe Robbie know who-is-who on the recruiting front.

 

As for the rest of the nonsense, such as the hugely overprinted photo of Shapiro being on the football field near the tunnel entrance, that is a privilege that he won in an auction.  He was not given that privilege just for being a contributor, since he is not even close to being one of UM's larger contributors (nor was he ever).  As has been proven in court and admitted to by all parties, Nevin made SOME contributions and made OTHER financial promises that he did NOT pay, such as his pledge to fund a ROOM in our expanded Athletic Center.

 

Should UM, or other universities, offer such privileged opportunities (such as "dotting the I" during the Ohio State pre-game) to fund-raising auctions and such?  Maybe not.  But the reason Shapiro was on the field was because he paid for it that one time.  It wasn't an "every game" access that he was given.

 

Finally, let's not forget the Nevin Shapiro is a USF alum.  Unfortunately, he grew up in Miami and loved the Hurricanes more than the Bulls.  But let's not pretend that this situation couldn't have just as easily happened at USF.  With USF's history, your athletic department would have welcomed a "big donor" such as Shapiro.

 

I hate that any of this (real and/or exaggerated) happened, I hope Shapiro dies a painful death, and I hope that these kids (now and in the future) learn a lesson.

 

But let's keep things in perspective and stick to the real, proven facts.

[Paisa el Toro]

 

Finally, let's not forget the Nevin Shapiro is a USF alum.  Unfortunately, he grew up in Miami and loved the Hurricanes more than the Bulls.  But let's not pretend that this situation couldn't have just as easily happened at USF.  With USF's history, your athletic department would have welcomed a "big donor" such as Shapiro.

 

 

Shapiro didn't graduate. He spent 5 years at USF, and never completed his degree. If there's a silver lining to Shapiro and his relationship to USF, it's that he's not technically an alumnus.

 

Speaking of alumni, we have way too many people that graduated from USF during the pre-football years that would rather follow one of the Big-3 simply because they grew up as a fan, have family that attended, or whatever other excuse such a person can drum up. These kinds of USF people make me sick. The reason you're getting paid in whatever vocation you chose is because of your undergraduate degree and combination of graduate/professional degree from whatever institution you went to obtain those.

 

And I agree with you, Mutiny, this kind of donor could have been welcomed at USF. The compliance people at USF, however, are pretty vigilant about gifts provided to athletes. I don't think that USF would have allowed this type of Shapiro-type culture to proliferate for 8 years like UM did. But that's just my speculation.

[Rizman]

Question is will Miami just get a slap on the wrist or nailed.  My gut says a slap on the wrist because the NCAA did not have ethics in the investigation which will result in Miami getting away with it again.

 

 

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Nevin-Shapiro-Says-He-Bet-on-University-of-Miami-Football-Games-Using-Inside-Info-211411911.html

[Who'sYourData?]

The point is simple.  UM cheats.  UM has always cheated.  UM will continue to cheat.

[usfvictor]

 

 

Finally, let's not forget the Nevin Shapiro is a USF alum.  Unfortunately, he grew up in Miami and loved the Hurricanes more than the Bulls.  But let's not pretend that this situation couldn't have just as easily happened at USF.  With USF's history, your athletic department would have welcomed a "big donor" such as Shapiro.

 

 

Shapiro didn't graduate. He spent 5 years at USF, and never completed his degree. If there's a silver lining to Shapiro and his relationship to USF, it's that he's not technically an alumnus.

 

Speaking of alumni, we have way too many people that graduated from USF during the pre-football years that would rather follow one of the Big-3 simply because they grew up as a fan, have family that attended, or whatever other excuse such a person can drum up. These kinds of USF people make me sick. The reason you're getting paid in whatever vocation you chose is because of your undergraduate degree and combination of graduate/professional degree from whatever institution you went to obtain those.

 

And I agree with you, Mutiny, this kind of donor could have been welcomed at USF. The compliance people at USF, however, are pretty vigilant about gifts provided to athletes. I don't think that USF would have allowed this type of Shapiro-type culture to proliferate for 8 years like UM did. But that's just my speculation.

 

 

I can easily see this kind of thing happen anywhere. I don't know how vigilant our compliance people would be, its not like UM could follow Shapiro making sure he wasn't given players money.

[Rizman]

 

 

 

Finally, let's not forget the Nevin Shapiro is a USF alum.  Unfortunately, he grew up in Miami and loved the Hurricanes more than the Bulls.  But let's not pretend that this situation couldn't have just as easily happened at USF.  With USF's history, your athletic department would have welcomed a "big donor" such as Shapiro.

 

 

Shapiro didn't graduate. He spent 5 years at USF, and never completed his degree. If there's a silver lining to Shapiro and his relationship to USF, it's that he's not technically an alumnus.

 

Speaking of alumni, we have way too many people that graduated from USF during the pre-football years that would rather follow one of the Big-3 simply because they grew up as a fan, have family that attended, or whatever other excuse such a person can drum up. These kinds of USF people make me sick. The reason you're getting paid in whatever vocation you chose is because of your undergraduate degree and combination of graduate/professional degree from whatever institution you went to obtain those.

 

And I agree with you, Mutiny, this kind of donor could have been welcomed at USF. The compliance people at USF, however, are pretty vigilant about gifts provided to athletes. I don't think that USF would have allowed this type of Shapiro-type culture to proliferate for 8 years like UM did. But that's just my speculation.

 

 

I can easily see this kind of thing happen anywhere. I don't know how vigilant our compliance people would be, its not like UM could follow Shapiro making sure he wasn't given players money.

 

Did not take a wiz kid to figure it out.  Especially, when coaches of the football and basketball teams knew about it.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Rizman

[Jihme]

what's the latest estimate on their punishment?  or will they walk away unscathed as usual?

[Rizman]

Nothing will happen, NCAA lost its teeth when they screwed up the investigation.  

[CanesFan77]

Question is will Miami just get a slap on the wrist or nailed.  My gut says a slap on the wrist because the NCAA did not have ethics in the investigation which will result in Miami getting away with it again.

 

 

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Nevin-Shapiro-Says-He-Bet-on-University-of-Miami-Football-Games-Using-Inside-Info-211411911.html

 

 

 

slap on the wrist? Is sitting out 2 bowl games and a berth in the ACC Championship game just a slap on the wrist? Plus there will be some loss of ships. Hardly a slap on the wrist. And what exactly has Miami gotten away with? Want the definition of slap on the wrist, look up the Oregon situation.

 

It's not Miami's fault that the NCAA dragged its feet for 2+ years on this. Schools impose sanctions all the time and the NCAA goes with it, which is what will happen hear. You're just mad that the NCAA wont be dropping the official hammer on Miami because Miami acted before the slow NCAA.