What has Holtz and Staff Done?

[Who'sYourData?]

You guys remember Rutgers score from Leavitt's last season? 31-0. The year before? 49-16. Compare that with Holtz's three games: a one-point win an overtime loss and a loss where the game was tied with 3 minutes to play ... Not saying program's in a good place, but USF hasn't done well against Rutgers since the first time USF played them in 2005.

1. leavitt needed to go long before he did

2. but holtz isnt the answer

for me--his failure to bring a top qb from the start raised by eyebrows and failure every year since compounded concern

3. this program has grossly underachieved

4. we are similar to orlando school now

1. Disagree, I believe he could have eventually got us to the promised land, especially with a correction of his personnel skills.

Can you explain why we were getting worse under Leavitt, if he was going to lead us to the promised land?

[Mission9]

Comparing one staff to the other is pointless. Leavitt and his staff are gone and not coming back. What matters most is how the current staff, and their team, perform relative to expectation. Losing 9 of your last 10 Big East games is unacceptable, and if you look behind the numbers you will see that the players Skip has had for the last 2+ years have not shown improvement and repeatedly make the same mistakes. And the arguement that these are CJL's recruits, not Skip's, does not hold water - Leavitt was not fired due to performance.

No, he wasn't. But it was getting close. Some of the big supporters were seriously pissed about that 31 - 0 debacle at Rutgers.

Well most of the larger donors I know are pissed at Woolard (as well Holtz and crew) for giving Holtz an extension. Remember that donors are not under contract, if that money starts to dry up, we are in big trouble.

I don't doubt that that is true. And it will have an effect on donors going forward. One of USF's problems is that we don't have that many large donors. And they are squeezing them. Overheard a conversation of one of them how he is getting tired of the constant contacts about giving more. At a football game, you can count the number of donors who give the $10K per year just by counting them on the small scoreboard as they list them. Didn't do it at the Rutgers game and probably won't at the FSU game unless it it totally out of hand by halftime. But my guess is we're talking about 50 - 60. And some of our large donors don't have any real ties to the school other than they live, or their businesses are located, in the area. Gonzmarts (Columbia Restaurant) come to mind.

If you do not mind, Ricky, I think that your point cannot be emphasized enough. We do not have those quasi professional sports franchise investors like the Bull Gators. I would suspect that USF does more with less than most of the schools in the BCS cartel. I understand that the school needs the bigger donors to step up during these tough economic times but you do not want to alienate them by making them feel they are being shaken down for cash. I have noticed when they trot out some of these donors and give them their just due, most do seem to be local businessmen who did not go to the school and I try to make sure to give them at least polite applause. Edited September 15, 2012 by Mission9

[mikeybull]

I don't know what you expect from Holtz. The guy was the head coach of ECU ( I don't care what they did in ****** c-usa it's c-usa). I mean come on...did you seriously have high hopes for him because of his daddy? I never thought holtz was going to be anything special. Charlie Strong would have rocked but he went to Louisville. Good job Doug/Judy.

Here's how we fix this team next year:

Fire Holtz

Fire Lanaris

Fire our DC

Fire our AD

Keep Genshaft out of it

Pray that Woulard signs and start him as a freshmen QB next year

Pretty laughable but true :/

[CousinRicky]

I don't know what you expect from Holtz. The guy was the head coach of ECU ( I don't care what they did in ****** c-usa it's c-usa). I mean come on...did you seriously have high hopes for him because of his daddy? I never thought holtz was going to be anything special. Charlie Strong would have rocked but he went to Louisville. Good job Doug/Judy.

Here's how we fix this team next year:

Fire Holtz

Fire Lanaris

Fire our DC

Fire our AD

Keep Genshaft out of it

Pray that Woulard signs and start him as a freshmen QB next year

Pretty laughable but true :/

Fire Holtz

Fire Lanaris ???

Fire our DC

Fire our AD

Keep Genshaft out of it

Pray that Woulard signs and start him as a freshmen QB next year

If, after this season, we are 1 - 6 again in BE play agree that the coaches should go. But the AD's job is more than just the football team. The athletic facilities we have on campus now are close to spectacular. He was responsible, at least in part, for that. Our other athletic programs are doing well overall. Even the "fire Stan Heath" chants have stopped for now and basketball enjoyed a fine year last year.

After the craziness that was the year of Leavitt's leaving, I don't think anyone thought that the hiring of Holtz was horrible. I remember seeing Doug (AD) after the signing of Holtz and he looked like crap. He worked his tail off making calls, visiting coaches, doing is vetting and, when all was said and done, made a decision that seemed reasonable. Sometimes things don't work out. It wasn't from lack of research and effort.

He isn't a friend of mine so this isn't a personal defense of the man. But I did speak with him a bit about the process. I just hope that he has the cajones to fire a coach when it is called for. We may be getting close to that in baseball and, possibly, football (depending on the results at the end of this year).

More likely Skip will get at least another year after this with "his" QB and mostly his recruits. Although Skip could argue that his 1st recruiting class wasn't really his class. So even more likely, if Woulard comes in to be our QB, Skip gets 2 years after this to right the ship.

[Orlando Bull]

You guys remember Rutgers score from Leavitt's last season? 31-0. The year before? 49-16. Compare that with Holtz's three games: a one-point win an overtime loss and a loss where the game was tied with 3 minutes to play ... Not saying program's in a good place, but USF hasn't done well against Rutgers since the first time USF played them in 2005.

1. leavitt needed to go long before he did

2. but holtz isnt the answer

for me--his failure to bring a top qb from the start raised by eyebrows and failure every year since compounded concern

3. this program has grossly underachieved

4. we are similar to orlando school now

1. Disagree, I believe he could have eventually got us to the promised land, especially with a correction of his personnel skills.

Can you explain why we were getting worse under Leavitt, if he was going to lead us to the promised land?

When did we get worse under Leavitt? See, that is where some of us disagree... oh, you mean when his senior QB, Big East career yards leader went down 2 games into the season? Is that what you mean? A record Daniels will break in about 8 more games than Grothe. (Actually, maybe less games, Grothe got to play in 3 bowl games)

Most of you are saying that BJ looked like a freshman against Rutgers defense the other night... you think he was better as a freshman when Leavitt got destroyed by RU? You'll blame that on the coach, but not Thursday night's game?

I guess Urban Meyer is awful too, Florida got worse while he was there... never mind that his 2-time heisman graduated. I bet Florida is happy to be rid of that guy. Hell, USC got worse under Carroll, I don't think they won the national championship his last year, they had won it previously... epic fail!

[Orlando Bull]

I don't know what you expect from Holtz. The guy was the head coach of ECU ( I don't care what they did in ****** c-usa it's c-usa). I mean come on...did you seriously have high hopes for him because of his daddy? I never thought holtz was going to be anything special. Charlie Strong would have rocked but he went to Louisville. Good job Doug/Judy.

Here's how we fix this team next year:

Fire Holtz

Fire Lanaris

Fire our DC

Fire our AD

Keep Genshaft out of it

Pray that Woulard signs and start him as a freshmen QB next year

Pretty laughable but true :/

Fire Holtz

Fire Lanaris ???

Fire our DC

Fire our AD

Keep Genshaft out of it

Pray that Woulard signs and start him as a freshmen QB next year

If, after this season, we are 1 - 6 again in BE play agree that the coaches should go. But the AD's job is more than just the football team. The athletic facilities we have on campus now are close to spectacular. He was responsible, at least in part, for that. Our other athletic programs are doing well overall. Even the "fire Stan Heath" chants have stopped for now and basketball enjoyed a fine year last year.

After the craziness that was the year of Leavitt's leaving, I don't think anyone thought that the hiring of Holtz was horrible. I remember seeing Doug (AD) after the signing of Holtz and he looked like crap. He worked his tail off making calls, visiting coaches, doing is vetting and, when all was said and done, made a decision that seemed reasonable. Sometimes things don't work out. It wasn't from lack of research and effort.

He isn't a friend of mine so this isn't a personal defense of the man. But I did speak with him a bit about the process. I just hope that he has the cajones to fire a coach when it is called for. We may be getting close to that in baseball and, possibly, football (depending on the results at the end of this year).

More likely Skip will get at least another year after this with "his" QB and mostly his recruits. Although Skip could argue that his 1st recruiting class wasn't really his class. So even more likely, if Woulard comes in to be our QB, Skip gets 2 years after this to right the ship.

I agree with all of this, DW is doing a fine job in my opinion. Holtz looked like a very solid hire at the time. The mistake made in my mind was allowing him to bring in his assistants and giving him a ton of money to do it... it should have been... 'go find a BCS staff and we'll give you more money to pay them... if you bring in your guys from ECU, that's fine, but, we're not going to give you money to give them 50% + raises because they haven't earned that money at this level..

As for Woulard, I think the kid has nearly unlimited potential, but, he was 16 for 29 passing last night in a big loss. I'm going to try to get out and watch him later this year, but, from following his stats, he needs to be developed... has anyone seen enough improvement in BJ over the last 3 years to think that Holtz/Fitch/Vaas are capable of developing an elite talent at QB?

Regardless of what I thin, Skip will get 1-2 more years whether we win another game,e between now and 2014 or not, but, Doug Woolard should put some VERY heavy pressure on him to make MAJOR staff changes if we lose more than 4 games total this season.

FSU is going to make us look awful, I am scared. We also likely lose two more conference games. I can live with a four loss season and no changes. Beyond that, something's got to give.

[BullDut]

What has Holtz and his staff ever done to make anyone think Woulard will develop here. Quite frankly he could be making a bad decision to come here. Based on the offensive scheme (is there one?). He may decide to make another choice. I cannot think of one player that has improved from year to year with this staff.

And again this is not about whether Leavitt should have been fired. It is has Holtz ever left you thinking........ The staff did a great job and out coached the other team with a complete and consistent effort. Have they ever made you as a fan say this program is on an upswing and the future is bright and as such I want to provide more support to help the program continue to grow ( ie pull out the checkbook). I know my answer.

Case in point when BJ had to leave for a play the coaches were so prepared and our back up so ready that Rutgers threw 9 men in the box and dropped the obvious coming play for a three yard loss. A blind squirrel could have found that nut and the three laying next to it.

To Holtz: show this fan base something or the empty seats will greatly outnumber the team turnovers in those awfully difficult humid environments like you so bravely faced and lost too at UCONN last season.

[Ghost]

first loss to Syracuse

first win at Louisville

first win at Cincinnati

first win at home against Rutgers

first win against Miami

first loss at home against Louisville

first loss at home against Connecticut

first win against Notre Dame

first losing season since joining Big East

more accomplishments by Holtz and Staff

I came in to write something like this.

first loss against Florida too. Not sure if that counts.

[Bull94]

I don't know what you expect from Holtz. The guy was the head coach of ECU ( I don't care what they did in ****** c-usa it's c-usa). I mean come on...did you seriously have high hopes for him because of his daddy? I never thought holtz was going to be anything special. Charlie Strong would have rocked but he went to Louisville. Good job Doug/Judy.

Here's how we fix this team next year:

Fire Holtz

Fire Lanaris

Fire our DC

Fire our AD

Keep Genshaft out of it

Pray that Woulard signs and start him as a freshmen QB next year

Pretty laughable but true :/

Fire Holtz

Fire Lanaris ???

Fire our DC

Fire our AD

Keep Genshaft out of it

Pray that Woulard signs and start him as a freshmen QB next year

If, after this season, we are 1 - 6 again in BE play agree that the coaches should go. But the AD's job is more than just the football team. The athletic facilities we have on campus now are close to spectacular. He was responsible, at least in part, for that. Our other athletic programs are doing well overall. Even the "fire Stan Heath" chants have stopped for now and basketball enjoyed a fine year last year.

After the craziness that was the year of Leavitt's leaving, I don't think anyone thought that the hiring of Holtz was horrible. I remember seeing Doug (AD) after the signing of Holtz and he looked like crap. He worked his tail off making calls, visiting coaches, doing is vetting and, when all was said and done, made a decision that seemed reasonable. Sometimes things don't work out. It wasn't from lack of research and effort.

He isn't a friend of mine so this isn't a personal defense of the man. But I did speak with him a bit about the process. I just hope that he has the cajones to fire a coach when it is called for. We may be getting close to that in baseball and, possibly, football (depending on the results at the end of this year).

More likely Skip will get at least another year after this with "his" QB and mostly his recruits. Although Skip could argue that his 1st recruiting class wasn't really his class. So even more likely, if Woulard comes in to be our QB, Skip gets 2 years after this to right the ship.

I agree with all of this, DW is doing a fine job in my opinion. Holtz looked like a very solid hire at the time. The mistake made in my mind was allowing him to bring in his assistants and giving him a ton of money to do it... it should have been... 'go find a BCS staff and we'll give you more money to pay them... if you bring in your guys from ECU, that's fine, but, we're not going to give you money to give them 50% + raises because they haven't earned that money at this level..

As for Woulard, I think the kid has nearly unlimited potential, but, he was 16 for 29 passing last night in a big loss. I'm going to try to get out and watch him later this year, but, from following his stats, he needs to be developed... has anyone seen enough improvement in BJ over the last 3 years to think that Holtz/Fitch/Vaas are capable of developing an elite talent at QB?

Regardless of what I thin, Skip will get 1-2 more years whether we win another game,e between now and 2014 or not, but, Doug Woolard should put some VERY heavy pressure on him to make MAJOR staff changes if we lose more than 4 games total this season.

FSU is going to make us look awful, I am scared. We also likely lose two more conference games. I can live with a four loss season and no changes. Beyond that, something's got to give.

anybody putting all their eggs in woulard basket needs to understand that he has started at the position for 1 year of high school. I know a skills competition gets them gidy but a strong arm and quick feet are what we have now and our coach doesn't use him properly. scout says he has decision making problems and no pocket awareness. common for a dual threat QB. same as we have now.

[snarling Bull]

But he is the only option we have for next. year after all floyd.and eveld are awful just ask the members of this board