USF Playing UCF

[usf97]

We didn't drop UCF to play Miami.

Yes we did.  One in state series ended in 08, and was replaced by another in 09.  This is really very simple people.

Um no. We don't schedule for in state series...where the heck did that idea come from? We can play as many in state games as we want.

We use the following formula which has been discussed ad nausium.

2 BCS Teams

2 Non-BCS Teams

1 I-AA Team

So UCF was not replaced with Miami.

UCF was replaced with WKU. Miami replaced NC State, Kansas, UNC, Auburn....along with FSU.

We have played mulitiple in state teams in many seasons.

UCF & FIU in 2008

UCF & FAU in 2007

UCF & FIU in 2006

UCF, Miami & FAMU in 2005

So to clarify, I am not a UCF series supporter. Yes obviously you would want to play Miami as long as they are willing to continue the series. That's redundant and completly unrelated to the UCF argument. However, when booking those 2 non-BCS games...why WKU or Ball State? You know Ball State is a really good team? How would you like them to beat us when there is an easy road trip against a probable 3-8 team right down the road. I know the whole scheduling thing is not easy but why can't we schedule Navy or Army again. If you are going to replace UCF....that's fine....just do it with someone interesting.

UM YES.

As I said, this is very simple.  Yes, again, technically UCF was replaced by Ball St and WKU.   TECHNICALLY.  But, in REALITY, one annual in state rivalry game to be played every year was replaced by another annual in state rivalry game to be played every year.  THAT is what I am talking about.  Oh, yes, I know the arguments that technically one non bcs team - UCF - was replaced by another non bcs team, but I am talking about one rivalry game being swapped out for another, and that is what has happened.

As someone pointed out, when you already have FSU, UM, and UF on the sched, and they are willing to sched you.  You don't then go out and overschedule the FIU's, FAU's, and UCF's of the world.

I understand the point you are making and I would think that is how USF would like to present it but in reality that is not what is happening. UCF was never an in state rivalry series....it was a C-USA mandated penalty that required us to play UCF 4 times in order to get into the Big East. Leavitt has no interest in playing UCF so in reality the whole argument is moot while he is our coach. That said I would much rather play a worthless UCF team which garners some interest instead of playing Ball State who started the season 12-0 last year. Who knows what type of team they will be by the time we play them but if they beat us I will be pissed. If we need sure wins give me Tulane. Fun town, short trip.

[BDYZR]

"Take FIU last year, we got a lot of guys hurt in that game because they were really hitting,"

Interesting quote from Bullspride08.

[813knight]

it was fun while it lasted ;D

all 4 games were fun just b/c of the familarity between student bodies/alumns of both schools....everyone knows someone from the other school....both sides had obnoxious fans that were looking to start fights but you'll get that from Rutgers also...last years game at UCF was a welcome scene, LOTS of fans of both students tailgating together on a packed lawn, it was the funnest tailgate of the year. I think one of your posters had a good photo album on here of it.

Now if a college football playoff was implemented and the BCS was thrown out, many schools wouldn't be dropping the 'threat' games b/c they know winning their conference is their automatic ticket in to the big show and wouldn't have to schedule the 'lock' games, you'd see more OOC games like Texas vs UF, etc

[Guest]

We didn't drop UCF to play Miami.

Yes we did. One in state series ended in 08, and was replaced by another in 09. This is really very simple people.

Um no. We don't schedule for in state series...where the heck did that idea come from? We can play as many in state games as we want.

We use the following formula which has been discussed ad nausium.

2 BCS Teams

2 Non-BCS Teams

1 I-AA Team

So UCF was not replaced with Miami.

UCF was replaced with WKU. Miami replaced NC State, Kansas, UNC, Auburn....along with FSU.

We have played mulitiple in state teams in many seasons.

UCF & FIU in 2008

UCF & FAU in 2007

UCF & FIU in 2006

UCF, Miami & FAMU in 2005

So to clarify, I am not a UCF series supporter. Yes obviously you would want to play Miami as long as they are willing to continue the series. That's redundant and completly unrelated to the UCF argument. However, when booking those 2 non-BCS games...why WKU or Ball State? You know Ball State is a really good team? How would you like them to beat us when there is an easy road trip against a probable 3-8 team right down the road. I know the whole scheduling thing is not easy but why can't we schedule Navy or Army again. If you are going to replace UCF....that's fine....just do it with someone interesting.

UM YES.

As I said, this is very simple. Yes, again, technically UCF was replaced by Ball St and WKU. TECHNICALLY. But, in REALITY, one annual in state rivalry game to be played every year was replaced by another annual in state rivalry game to be played every year. THAT is what I am talking about. Oh, yes, I know the arguments that technically one non bcs team - UCF - was replaced by another non bcs team, but I am talking about one rivalry game being swapped out for another, and that is what has happened.

As someone pointed out, when you already have FSU, UM, and UF on the sched, and they are willing to sched you. You don't then go out and overschedule the FIU's, FAU's, and UCF's of the world.

I understand the point you are making and I would think that is how USF would like to present it but in reality that is not what is happening. UCF was never an in state rivalry series....it was a C-USA mandated penalty that required us to play UCF 4 times in order to get into the Big East. Leavitt has no interest in playing UCF so in reality the whole argument is moot while he is our coach. That said I would much rather play a worthless UCF team which garners some interest instead of playing Ball State who started the season 12-0 last year. Who knows what type of team they will be by the time we play them but if they beat us I will be pissed. If we need sure wins give me Tulane. Fun town, short trip.

Tex... Cooley is right. The media (Greg Auman, for example) has said the USF scheduling philosophy is 2 BCS teams, 2 non-BCS teams, 1 FCS (I-AA) team.

In that mix they also want to schedule Florida teams when possible... but CJL views UCF no different than FAU or FIU: a non-BCS team with whom he would sign 2-for-1 series. UCF would not take a 2-for-1 series with USF.

So, since UCF is a non-BCS team, and since USF prefers to schedule 2 non-BCS teams each year, UCF was "replaced" by WKU and FIU for 2009.

We will play UCF again... but not in the next few years.

[MikeG]

several people have brought up the question "BUT WHY WKU?"

My guess is they are either new to USF football or have forgotten our history. When we started the program, WKU was a well established, thriving, and ranked 1-AA program that was happy to sign a 4 game, home and home series with a fledgling startup like USF. Granted, we were a "bigger" school in terms of many things but unlike some schools in the state that were very close to us-- they gave us a chance and made room on their schedule for us. We got beat pretty bad the first game but we closed the gap pretty quickly and eventully evened the series up at 2-2. They were on our schedule for the first four years of USF football-- something no other team can match.

They were HELPFUL in moving USF towards the 1-A ranks. Other teams-- specifically one in Orlando--- snubbed USF when it came to scheduling in those early years

So now that they have made that move themselves-- we are there for them as well-- providing a nice home game against a BCS opponent for them and a decent home game for ourselves later on.

Don't sleep on WKU-- they will be a good test of our guys in both games. We need to respect that program that gave us respect when we had zero track record. WKU is a fine institution.

Ball State is no one to look past either.

PS-- USF, via the Lee Roy Selmon AD years, setup a two game series with UCF. The move to the Big East prompted an additional two games as part of our buyout terms from a stupid conference (CUSA) that denied us entry for two years for no good reason whatsoever.

[hightechbull]

WKU and USF were also fellow Sun Belt members in our non-football era.  That and the things mentioned by MikeG indicate a "friendly" relationship between USF and WKU's athletic administration.

Ball State sounds more like USF's eventual tour of Indiana, although IU was pushed back for FSU.  Personally I would have preferred Purdue over Ball State, but if Dave Letterman shows up or mentions the game on his show, that would be cool.

[LunchTimeBully]

Now would it be funner to play them then WKY or Wofford? Hell yeah, but at what cost to the rest of our season... if we lose then we are screwed, if we win by a hair then we are still screwed because we still lose ground in the AP/Coaches polls. Now if the National pollsters gave us the same cushion that they allot Notre Dame if they should lose to Navy or Army then it would be a different story, in that case I'd say play UCiF every season, until the Big East expands this would be an easy way to schedule teams - but since that is not the case its neither here nor there.

I'm not trying to make the argument that we should play UCF, but it seems like the leading reason not to play them is because it is a lose/lose situation for USF.  Isn’t a game against WKY also “lose/loseâ€; I’m trying to understand the difference?

Is WKY not viewed as “lose/lose†because they are less likely to beat us than UCF?  If so, then that would seem to suggest that we are reluctant to play UCF due to fear.  Would that also mean that we would not want to play any non-BCS team that is as good as or better than UCF?

Or, is WKY not “lose/lose†because the country would perceive a loss against UCF as worse than a loss to WKY?

Or, is WKY not “lose/lose†because the country would perceive a win against WKY as better than a win against UCF?

Or, is it because we don’t recruit against WKY?  Ehh.

:clap You finally got it.

Losing to UCF would hurt recruiting. Losing to WKY? Seriously, there is no comparison. Not too many florida kids are willing to leave FL for WKY... the strength of schedule difference between the two teams is also negligible...

- In-state games are very emotional for our players and Leavitt has said he would like to limit the number of those on our schedule, especially with UF, UM, and FSU on the schedule over the next 2 years.

- How many players were injured in the FIU and UCF games this year? Off the top of my head I can think of a few players, George Selvie, Marcus Edwards, Carlton Williams, Mike Ford, and Bruce Mompremier. In-state games are going to produce more injuries because players hit harder, and therefore we must limit the number of them we have each year...

[BullsFanInTX]

We didn't drop UCF to play Miami.

Yes we did.  One in state series ended in 08, and was replaced by another in 09.  This is really very simple people.

Um no. We don't schedule for in state series...where the heck did that idea come from? We can play as many in state games as we want.

We use the following formula which has been discussed ad nausium.

2 BCS Teams

2 Non-BCS Teams

1 I-AA Team

So UCF was not replaced with Miami.

UCF was replaced with WKU. Miami replaced NC State, Kansas, UNC, Auburn....along with FSU.

We have played mulitiple in state teams in many seasons.

UCF & FIU in 2008

UCF & FAU in 2007

UCF & FIU in 2006

UCF, Miami & FAMU in 2005

So to clarify, I am not a UCF series supporter. Yes obviously you would want to play Miami as long as they are willing to continue the series. That's redundant and completly unrelated to the UCF argument. However, when booking those 2 non-BCS games...why WKU or Ball State? You know Ball State is a really good team? How would you like them to beat us when there is an easy road trip against a probable 3-8 team right down the road. I know the whole scheduling thing is not easy but why can't we schedule Navy or Army again. If you are going to replace UCF....that's fine....just do it with someone interesting.

UM YES.

As I said, this is very simple.  Yes, again, technically UCF was replaced by Ball St and WKU.   TECHNICALLY.  But, in REALITY, one annual in state rivalry game to be played every year was replaced by another annual in state rivalry game to be played every year.  THAT is what I am talking about.  Oh, yes, I know the arguments that technically one non bcs team - UCF - was replaced by another non bcs team, but I am talking about one rivalry game being swapped out for another, and that is what has happened.

As someone pointed out, when you already have FSU, UM, and UF on the sched, and they are willing to sched you.  You don't then go out and overschedule the FIU's, FAU's, and UCF's of the world.

I understand the point you are making and I would think that is how USF would like to present it but in reality that is not what is happening. UCF was never an in state rivalry series....it was a C-USA mandated penalty that required us to play UCF 4 times in order to get into the Big East. Leavitt has no interest in playing UCF so in reality the whole argument is moot while he is our coach. That said I would much rather play a worthless UCF team which garners some interest instead of playing Ball State who started the season 12-0 last year. Who knows what type of team they will be by the time we play them but if they beat us I will be pissed. If we need sure wins give me Tulane. Fun town, short trip.

Tex... Cooley is right.  The media (Greg Auman, for example) has said the USF scheduling philosophy is 2 BCS teams, 2 non-BCS teams, 1 FCS (I-AA) team. 

In that mix they also want to schedule Florida teams when possible... but CJL views UCF no different than FAU or FIU: a non-BCS team with whom he would sign 2-for-1 series.  UCF would not take a 2-for-1 series with USF.

So, since UCF is a non-BCS team, and since USF prefers to schedule 2 non-BCS teams each year, UCF was "replaced" by WKU and FIU for 2009.

We will play UCF again... but not in the next few years.

I agree.  Tecnically you are correct - UCF, a non bcs team was replaced by another non bcs team, Ball St. and WKU.  But in reality one "annual rivalry game", was replaced by another "annual rivalry game" whether or not that team is bcs or not.  Bottom line is we were playing one state school every year, UCF, and are now playing another in state school every year, Miami.  That is all I am saying.

[IncrediBULL]

Thought of another reason to play UCF.  They did bring a lot of hot chicks (fans) here to the game. 

[Guest]

... in reality one "annual rivalry game", was replaced by another "annual rivalry game" whether or not that team is bcs or not. Bottom line is we were playing one state school every year, UCF, and are now playing another in state school every year, Miami. That is all I am saying.

I think you're missing a big point. There was no "annual rivalry game" against UCF.

1 - USF signed a single home-and-home (2 games) series against UCF. (That is not an "annual rivalry")

2 - USF was invited to the Big East and we told C-USA to kiss our hairy ass.

3 - C-USA said we had to play FIVE games against C-USA members instead of paying a fine.

4 - C-USA invited UCF to join.

5 - C-USA said we could count the first two games against UCF and two more if we signed another home-and-home (2 game) series.

6 - C-USA said we didn't have to play a fifth game after all.

Where in all of that do you see "annual rivalry game" ?

However, the Miami series IS an annual game - because ESPN approached Miami and said, "Hey, what if we put you on ESPN on Thanksgiving weekend every year. Who would you want to play?" Miami said, "How 'bout USF?" ESPN said, "Sounds good!"... and we added TWO more home-and-home (2 game) series with Miami, with options for more.

The difference? The UCF "series" was never intended to be more than four games. The Miami "series" is actually a series.