Contract extension

[Jim Johnson]

1 minute ago, puc86 said:

Do you know how many coaches have been fired in the past two years including us just firing the DC who came in and faced the exact same adversity as CJS? No one actually believes the nonsense that Covid means certain people couldn’t perform to the smallest of standards while others were able to flourish, they just say it because it’s a convenient and pervasive excuse. That being said how is that important to why you can’t see what happens in year three when you have three full partial years to decide if you really want to give a sub .150 coach a seven year contract for no apparent or justifiable reason. People wonder why we have no money, it’s not that we haven’t had any at all times it’s because we invent new ways to waste any penny we get in and then ask for three more.

Firing coaches before their contract ends does not really help the financial situation, you know.

I am not pushing for the extension, personally.  But if it happens, and the salary is not increased as with Holtz, I would not be up in arms about it.

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As for success despite COVID... Coaches that came in to their schools in 2020 replacing coaches who were fired for poor performance (as opposed to replacing successful coaches who moved on to other schools) are generally all in the same boat as CJS, unless they play in the SEC... Jeff Traylor at UTSA is a bizarre exception. 

• UTSA is 11-1
• Ole Miss 10-2
• Arkansas 8-4
• Mississippi State 7-5
• Old Dominion 6-6
• Florida State 5-7
• Rutgers 5-7
• Colorado State 3-9
• New Mexico 3-9
• UNLV 2-10

 

[puc86]

2 minutes ago, Jim Johnson said:

Firing coaches before their contract ends does not really help the financial situation, you know.

I am not pushing for the extension, personally.  But if it happens, and the salary is not increased as with Holtz, I would not be up in arms about it.

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As for success despite COVID... Coaches that came in to their schools in 2020 replacing coaches who were fired for poor performance (as opposed to replacing successful coaches who moved on to other schools) are generally all in the same boat as CJS, unless they play in the SEC... Jeff Traylor at UTSA is a bizarre exception. 

• UTSA is 11-1
• Ole Miss 10-2
• Arkansas 8-4
• Mississippi State 7-5
• Old Dominion 6-6
• Florida State 5-7
• Rutgers 5-7
• Colorado State 3-9
• New Mexico 3-9
• UNLV 2-10

 

I’m not arguing to fire him I’m arguing that with the data we currently have making it so there are two bonus years under contract is indefensible and would seem more likely to create a situation where we have to pay out future years than save us any money.

[Jim Johnson]

3 minutes ago, puc86 said:

I’m not arguing to fire him I’m arguing that with the data we currently have making it so there are two bonus years under contract is indefensible and would seem more likely to create a situation where we have to pay out future years than save us any money.

Which is really your underlying argument: in your mind, if I interpret correctly, CJS has not shown you anything to suggest USF will start winning anytime soon and so USF will have to fire him for non-performance the same as Holtz and Strong.

Whereas I believe CJS will start winning and keep winning, which means this extension wouldn't cost us anything. 

[puc86]

Just now, Jim Johnson said:

Which is really your underlying argument: in your mind, if I interpret correctly, CJS has not shown you anything to suggest USF will start winning anytime soon and so USF will have to fire him for non-performance the same as Holtz and Strong.

Whereas I believe CJS will start winning and keep winning, which means this extension wouldn't cost us anything. 

I’m completely fine with you believing differently but in my scenario we never extend him and in yours it didn’t cost us anything but it also didn’t gain us anything, so what’s the point of creating a greater cost on the more likely scenario in order to gain absolutely nothing on the very fringe possibility that CJS isn’t the failure he and his family have demonstrated themselves to be at every opportunity anyone has ever given them? Because he says nice things, gets along with the media that’s left and shakes hands?

[Jim Johnson]

1 minute ago, puc86 said:

I’m completely fine with you believing differently but in my scenario we never extend him and in yours it didn’t cost us anything but it also didn’t gain us anything, so what’s the point of creating a greater cost on the more likely scenario in order to gain absolutely nothing on the very fringe possibility that CJS isn’t the failure he and his family have demonstrated themselves to be at every opportunity anyone has ever given them? Because he says nice things, gets along with the media that’s left and shakes hands?

It could also show the community that we are committed to a vision that will be longer than 3 years.

[BulledOver]

1 hour ago, Jim Johnson said:

2021, although more normal than the 2020 season, was still not "normal" in the pre-COVID world.  Although less than 2020, spring and summer were still significantly limited by COVID protocols... in-person recruiting for the 2021 class was prohibited, so all recruiting was video and watching tape.  Hence 2021 was more like 2020 than it was like 2019 or before.

The reason for the extensions, as I see it, is because fans like you are holding CJS to the pre-COVID standards... rather than simply ignoring the results from last season completely and treating this year like a partial first year.

I understand why some people feel it's not the right time... but I fully understand why USF might want to do this.  It makes sense to me.

Well, "fans like me" think there is a possibility this covid protocol may be drug out longer if allowed. If so, it could be the new normal for a while. Thing is, other schools have to adhere to the same regs so it's a level playing field for all and many are excelling and building.

CJS has plenty of time left to see what he can do. He signed on knowing the situation at USF. When you're on the bottom in your conference and ranked last in recruiting, it's hard to get warm and fuzzy. We shall see. No mob's, torches or pitchforks out yet so CJS is still in good shape.

[WWMJD]

I can't believe this is a serious discussion. If they were to extend Scott now (I cannot possibly fathom anyone suggesting this and not being laughed out of the room), I will officially give up.

[BDYZR]

47 minutes ago, Jim Johnson said:

in my scenario we never extend him and in yours it didn’t cost us anything but it also didn’t gain us anything, so what’s the point of creating a greater cost

I'm so confused...

[puc86]

8 minutes ago, BDYZR said:

I'm so confused...

Sorry I skipped some steps if you extend and he fails there is a cost, if you extend and he succeeds nothing happens, if you don’t extend and he succeeds nothing happens and if you don’t extend and he continues to be him nothing happens. His most likely result is failure so doubling down for no reason just doesn’t make sense. 

[Triple B]

1 hour ago, puc86 said:

Do you know how many coaches have been fired in the past two years including us just firing the DC who came in and faced the exact same adversity as CJS?

None of them faced the exact same adversity. Every situation out there was unique to each program, as it is with everything involving athletic programs. You can keep banging that drum but it's weak, at best. Could your miracle worker at UTSA have come in here and have had the same results he had there? There's no way to know ..... having said that, you would have hoped that CJS would have had more than 1 FBS win in two years, but bottom line he didn't ..... but it doesn't really matter what he's done the first two years, it's what happens the next 2-3 years that does.