Baseball picked 7th in AAC preseason poll

[CousinRicky]

6 hours ago, Jonesy Bull said:

The 80's are a cloudy haze for me, but for different reasons!

If you were around for the '60s it was a Purple Haze.

 

[Guest Jonesy Bull]

1 hour ago, CousinRicky said:

If you were around for the '60s it was a Purple Haze.

 

Well I was around.  But born in 66 I didnt get the full purple haze experience.  

But when I lived in Beta Hall in 86, it was like we were re-living the late 60s.

[NewEnglandBull]

1 hour ago, Jonesy Bull said:

Well I was around.  But born in 66 I didnt get the full purple haze experience.  

But when I lived in Beta Hall in 86, it was like we were re-living the late 60s.

We might have been neighbors. I was in Beta in 86. In 85 I was a Fontana boy. 

[Guest Jonesy Bull]

9 minutes ago, NewEnglandBull said:

We might have been neighbors. I was in Beta in 86. In 85 I was a Fontana boy. 

Interesting, was there 86/87 year at Beta then moved to the Village after that. Im sure we at least knew of each other.

[NovaBull]

8 hours ago, JTrue said:

Yep. And JU is at least our equal these days, too.

The University of Tampa would give UF, FSU and UM a serious run for their money...and is light years ahead of USF right now.
 

My point being that the talent is definitely in the area, but just not making its way to USF.

Edited January 8, 2020 by NovaBull

[Big_Hairy_Bull]

22 minutes ago, NovaBull said:

The University of Tampa would give UF, FSU and UM a serious run for their money...and is light years ahead of USF right now.
 

My point being that the talent is definitely in the area, but just not making its way to USF.

Please don't start comparing Tampa baseball to USF. I agree we should be stronger in baseball more consistently, but UT is a totally different situation.

[JTrue]

1 hour ago, NovaBull said:

The University of Tampa would give UF, FSU and UM a serious run for their money...and is light years ahead of USF right now.
 

My point being that the talent is definitely in the area, but just not making its way to USF.

Your second point is solid, that first sentence is more of a joke.

[JTrue]

Here's the thing about D2 baseball teams. They have plenty of players who could be solid D1 players, but they aren't even in the same breath when it comes to depth. D1 and D2 both have to abide by the 11.7 scholarship rule. That means NO ONE on a D1 team is getting a full ride. No one. D1 teams offer a low scholarship to freshman and entice them with increased amounts as the age and prove their value. They have to spread that 11.7 around. If a D2 team is going to have a prayer of stealing a legit player, they have to seriously out-distance themselves from the pack with an offer to a freshman and, in doing so, deplete what they have to offer the rest of the roster. Many of them do it. It creates a major imbalance. If you go balls out and give a guy a full-ride (it happens in D2) to get him, you're now saddled with that for 4 years and it screws up the rest of your distribution. You can win a lot of games with a stud ace on the mound for 4 years dominating other teams the first game of a series and then roll the dice with your 2 and 3 guys. That's just not going to happen in D1. The other way to spread your spending intelligently is to comb the JuCo ranks for proven players. But then you're pulling upper classmen who have multiple D1 schools throwing more your way when they know it's only for a year (if he's pretty likely to get drafted) or two. And you're going to give him 50-70% scholarship. That takes nearly every D2 team out of the equation because the one bargaining chip they have is that 50-70% when you're a freshman and USF is offering you 10-20%. But, once you're a junior, you expect someone to come calling with the money. When you're thinking you''re only playin for one, maybe two years, it doesn't financially matter. Especially since JuCos pay a full-ride. If you do the math, a kid gets the first two years free and then 70% from a D1 school. If UT comes calling with 50%, 60%, and then even a full-ride as a junior, you're still paying way more out of pocket to go there. D2s also get by with transfers. But, again, those kids you're enticing to come back with immediately eligibility AND money, you don't have for 4 years. You grab a talent who's buried on the roster somewhere else and give him high money and he likely out-talents his competition on most nights. From a cost-benefit perspective, the weekday starter or middle reliever from some middle of the pack D1 team who wants to come home is worth 70% for a year or two. D1 baseball teams rarely take transfers because when he's ineligible for a year, you're still giving him a portion of your precious 11.7 scholarships. USF isn't about to say to some kid who's not happy with his playing time at Notre Dame, "sure, come on down, we'll give you 1/3 of the scholarship money we've got earmarked for the starting rotation for you to sit on the bench for half the time you're with us." UT at its best, can hang with a solid D1 team on any given day, but playing our schedule would be a bloodbath for them.

TL:DR - UT and USF are on entirely different levels

Edited January 8, 2020 by JTrue

[NovaBull]

19 hours ago, Big_Hairy_Bull said:

Please don't start comparing Tampa baseball to USF. I agree we should be stronger in baseball more consistently, but UT is a totally different situation.

I’m not sure I’m following...UT is defending DII national champs and probably has more draft picks form their team than USF (have not verified this, but just a hunch). 

As a former college player myself back in the early 2000s (man I’m getting old) UT was ALWAYS better than USF and it was a known fact by scouts everywhere in the state that they’d certainly compete with the big three in Florida college baseball.

[NovaBull]

18 hours ago, JTrue said:

Here's the thing about D2 baseball teams. They have plenty of players who could be solid D1 players, but they aren't even in the same breath when it comes to depth. D1 and D2 both have to abide by the 11.7 scholarship rule. That means NO ONE on a D1 team is getting a full ride. No one. D1 teams offer a low scholarship to freshman and entice them with increased amounts as the age and prove their value. They have to spread that 11.7 around. If a D2 team is going to have a prayer of stealing a legit player, they have to seriously out-distance themselves from the pack with an offer to a freshman and, in doing so, deplete what they have to offer the rest of the roster. Many of them do it. It creates a major imbalance. If you go balls out and give a guy a full-ride (it happens in D2) to get him, you're now saddled with that for 4 years and it screws up the rest of your distribution. You can win a lot of games with a stud ace on the mound for 4 years dominating other teams the first game of a series and then roll the dice with your 2 and 3 guys. That's just not going to happen in D1. The other way to spread your spending intelligently is to comb the JuCo ranks for proven players. But then you're pulling upper classmen who have multiple D1 schools throwing more your way when they know it's only for a year (if he's pretty likely to get drafted) or two. And you're going to give him 50-70% scholarship. That takes nearly every D2 team out of the equation because the one bargaining chip they have is that 50-70% when you're a freshman and USF is offering you 10-20%. But, once you're a junior, you expect someone to come calling with the money. When you're thinking you''re only playin for one, maybe two years, it doesn't financially matter. Especially since JuCos pay a full-ride. If you do the math, a kid gets the first two years free and then 70% from a D1 school. If UT comes calling with 50%, 60%, and then even a full-ride as a junior, you're still paying way more out of pocket to go there. D2s also get by with transfers. But, again, those kids you're enticing to come back with immediately eligibility AND money, you don't have for 4 years. You grab a talent who's buried on the roster somewhere else and give him high money and he likely out-talents his competition on most nights. From a cost-benefit perspective, the weekday starter or middle reliever from some middle of the pack D1 team who wants to come home is worth 70% for a year or two. D1 baseball teams rarely take transfers because when he's ineligible for a year, you're still giving him a portion of your precious 11.7 scholarships. USF isn't about to say to some kid who's not happy with his playing time at Notre Dame, "sure, come on down, we'll give you 1/3 of the scholarship money we've got earmarked for the starting rotation for you to sit on the bench for half the time you're with us." UT at its best, can hang with a solid D1 team on any given day, but playing our schedule would be a bloodbath for them.

TL:DR - UT and USF are on entirely different levels

I respect your opinion but humbly disagree. That is not how college kids think about baseball as the best kids usually go pro after high school, with other good players getting signed by either JUCOs (so you can get drafted every year) or 4-year schools. 

UT is unique in that within the Bay Area (Seminole High Warhawks baseball for the win) many scouts recommend that school over a USF, especially to JUCO transfers. So they get a ton of talent that’s already experienced.

As a guy who will speak from personal experience (with both myself and lots of guys I played with around the Bay Area), UT is a place you go to learn and go pro, whereas USF has never had that same reputation.

I don’t quite know why, but I will leave you with one final anecdote (since they always prove correct over the long term ;^D), but I was recruited by UF, UT, Clemson, UNC, LSU, SPC, HCC and some other out of state teams, but never once received even a sniff from USF - even though I was in Pinellas County. Out of all my other friends/teammates, let’s say about 30-40 guys who either went D1 or turned pro from the Bay Area, only 1 even went to USF.

My point is that USF (at that time, it may be different now) was lacking in assessing/landing talent in its own backyard and that just shouldn’t happen.