Power 5 conferences: "let us provide more money to athletes or we will be looking to break away"

[bullcocky101]

maybe someday some of our fans will start to understand that the BCS and then the P5 came about to thwart schools like USF from getting a shot at playing for the bigger prizes in college football. This is by no means a new thing-- the bigger conferences have always tried to distinguish themselves from those they felt were lesser and the only body that could ever try to keep things somewhat fair used to be the NCAA. They are always finding ways to get around them too-- and if all else fails, they will simply start their own college league. Most will consider that the actual national championship league anyway-- those schools have all the power.

 

 

I suppose we could once again sneak into the P5 at some point-- but I sure won't lose any sleep over it or hope the schools makes it the over riding priority. To be fair-- I'm not sure we deserve to be in that league at this point anyway.

I agree, just feel that we are too invested at this point to cash out and settle for anything less than the dream of winning conference and national titles.

[bullsbucsfan426]

 

 

 

 

If this were to happen and USF is left behind in the Non Power 5 conferences than Doug and Judy for that matter need to be looked at for their roll or lack of roll in assuring USF lands in a Power conference.  Athletics would take a major hit, Most Donors would stop donating to the school, (not interested in seeing the teams compete against the likes from the non power schools on regular basis). Attendance would continue to drop and the school would bleed money from the athletic programs.

 

yes because they are soley the reason USF is not a storied football program with tons of history and money--- give it a rest

 

 

amen

 

 

So their jobs should be safe if they are not solely responsible for crummy consequences of mismanagement?  LOL at the coddling of these high-powered, highly paid leaders.

 

 

Doug and Judy were the people in charge when USF was gifted the opportunity to run with the big dogs in the BE.  That was the hand they were dealt. . . . . . . did we make the most of it?. . . . . . . I think not.

 

As it stands today, we're outhustled, out-fund raised, outspent, out-facilitied, and outperformed by UCF Athletics, and they were mired in probation and a wrongful death lawsuit while USF basked in the BE. . . . . that makes me want to ask Doug and Judy if we were cruising on autopilot during that time, because it sure looks that way.

 

 

Serious question, I wonder if UCF already has the ECU and Tulane banners flying in its (new) arena.  You can see ours when the (yet to be renamed) Sundome's lights are working properly.  Trivial maybe, also a sign our leadership is taking relegation from the BE laying down.

 

 

 

BTW, you know you got a problem when the only defenses for doug's job are (1) he's retiring soon anyway and/or (2) he's not solely responsible.

 

yeah-- that is exactly what I said and meant

 

you base USF's equal footing on barely making it into a devastated Big East-- which was openly mocked during it's entire existence. There is a ton more to it than being a wet behind the ears newcomer to the FBS ranks. Sure-- some of the schools in a somewhat similar situation of joining the BE have weaseled their way into some of the P5. But look at those schools-- long histories, huge fan and donor bases, large war chests--- things USF won't have no matter WHO is running the show for decades. You can pis and moan about it all you want but Judy and Doug are not responsible for what a board decided back in 1960 and held onto for 35 years.

 

But hey-- we all know what your real agenda is here anyway-- let's fire everyone and point the finger of blame on them because they are terrible people. It is such a bunch of horse crap. The bottom line is that USF has been behind all the P5 type of schools for several decades. Blaming a handful of administrative leaders for this situation is ass backwards. I am in no way an apologist for any of the admin or whoever at USF- they haven't been perfect by any means-- but you cannot simply blame them for things that take decades to turn around. Your argument is total BS-- you compare us to UCF as if we are supposed to be better than them simply because we are USF. You do realize they have had football about 20 years longer than us, right? I suppose that doesn't matter in your amazingly blind evaluation of the situation.

 

 

And yet our teams were valued enough to pull away Pitt, Syracuse (historically strong schools), WVU and Louisville (currently strong schools with some tradition), and Rutgers (all about that academia and another B1G doormat) to cripple the conference. Do you seriously believe that if we hadn't continued to produce results like 2006 and 2007 that we wouldn't have gotten into the Big 12 or the ACC if FSU or Miami left? Get real. For all we know the Big 12 is happily courting UCF over in Orlando right now, because they've managed to develop a quality program that will continue to grow given the opportunity. They took one year in a BCS conference, and managed to smack down not only the best teams formerly from C-USA, but also our premiere teams over the years in Louisville and Rutgers. We'll never know how they would have done against Syracuse or Pitt, but based on their results last year neither the Orange or the Panthers would have been able to do a dang thing. 

 

I don't blame Judy and Doug for this entirely, but I do blame them for some lack of foresight. You don't hand a football coach coming off a losing season a huge new contract with a 2.5M USD buyout. At best you give him an extra year to protect his recruiting, then fire him if he doesn't pan out. Add on the fact that you could make the case that Stan Heath is perhaps the only quality coach Woolard has hired. Holtz wasn't the man, and our Olympic sports don't matter in the revenue equation. In return, the students have deserted the program that only five years ago was putting huge crowds in the stadium and don't give a whit about where their student fees are going-DOWN the DRAIN. 

 

Hell, I even get the massive capital improvements-we needed an update and it would look attractive to a new conference, even though we don't have an OCS, you could show that we're committed to presenting a high quality image to the country. If the basketball gets on a tourney run this year, a lot of people are going to see that beautiful new Sun Dome on TV-and we'd better hope it's full. Barring a major turnaround by Bulls football next year, we are going to be on the outside looking in for the next few years...all I can hope for is that UCF doesn't leave. That could well be the death blow for this program. 

[MikeG]

 

 

 

 

 

If this were to happen and USF is left behind in the Non Power 5 conferences than Doug and Judy for that matter need to be looked at for their roll or lack of roll in assuring USF lands in a Power conference.  Athletics would take a major hit, Most Donors would stop donating to the school, (not interested in seeing the teams compete against the likes from the non power schools on regular basis). Attendance would continue to drop and the school would bleed money from the athletic programs.

 

yes because they are soley the reason USF is not a storied football program with tons of history and money--- give it a rest

 

 

amen

 

 

So their jobs should be safe if they are not solely responsible for crummy consequences of mismanagement?  LOL at the coddling of these high-powered, highly paid leaders.

 

 

Doug and Judy were the people in charge when USF was gifted the opportunity to run with the big dogs in the BE.  That was the hand they were dealt. . . . . . . did we make the most of it?. . . . . . . I think not.

 

As it stands today, we're outhustled, out-fund raised, outspent, out-facilitied, and outperformed by UCF Athletics, and they were mired in probation and a wrongful death lawsuit while USF basked in the BE. . . . . that makes me want to ask Doug and Judy if we were cruising on autopilot during that time, because it sure looks that way.

 

 

Serious question, I wonder if UCF already has the ECU and Tulane banners flying in its (new) arena.  You can see ours when the (yet to be renamed) Sundome's lights are working properly.  Trivial maybe, also a sign our leadership is taking relegation from the BE laying down.

 

 

 

BTW, you know you got a problem when the only defenses for doug's job are (1) he's retiring soon anyway and/or (2) he's not solely responsible.

 

yeah-- that is exactly what I said and meant

 

you base USF's equal footing on barely making it into a devastated Big East-- which was openly mocked during it's entire existence. There is a ton more to it than being a wet behind the ears newcomer to the FBS ranks. Sure-- some of the schools in a somewhat similar situation of joining the BE have weaseled their way into some of the P5. But look at those schools-- long histories, huge fan and donor bases, large war chests--- things USF won't have no matter WHO is running the show for decades. You can pis and moan about it all you want but Judy and Doug are not responsible for what a board decided back in 1960 and held onto for 35 years.

 

But hey-- we all know what your real agenda is here anyway-- let's fire everyone and point the finger of blame on them because they are terrible people. It is such a bunch of horse crap. The bottom line is that USF has been behind all the P5 type of schools for several decades. Blaming a handful of administrative leaders for this situation is ass backwards. I am in no way an apologist for any of the admin or whoever at USF- they haven't been perfect by any means-- but you cannot simply blame them for things that take decades to turn around. Your argument is total BS-- you compare us to UCF as if we are supposed to be better than them simply because we are USF. You do realize they have had football about 20 years longer than us, right? I suppose that doesn't matter in your amazingly blind evaluation of the situation.

 

 

And yet our teams were valued enough to pull away Pitt, Syracuse (historically strong schools), WVU and Louisville (currently strong schools with some tradition), and Rutgers (all about that academia and another B1G doormat) to cripple the conference. Do you seriously believe that if we hadn't continued to produce results like 2006 and 2007 that we wouldn't have gotten into the Big 12 or the ACC if FSU or Miami left? Get real. For all we know the Big 12 is happily courting UCF over in Orlando right now, because they've managed to develop a quality program that will continue to grow given the opportunity. They took one year in a BCS conference, and managed to smack down not only the best teams formerly from C-USA, but also our premiere teams over the years in Louisville and Rutgers. We'll never know how they would have done against Syracuse or Pitt, but based on their results last year neither the Orange or the Panthers would have been able to do a dang thing. 

 

I don't blame Judy and Doug for this entirely, but I do blame them for some lack of foresight. You don't hand a football coach coming off a losing season a huge new contract with a 2.5M USD buyout. At best you give him an extra year to protect his recruiting, then fire him if he doesn't pan out. Add on the fact that you could make the case that Stan Heath is perhaps the only quality coach Woolard has hired. Holtz wasn't the man, and our Olympic sports don't matter in the revenue equation. In return, the students have deserted the program that only five years ago was putting huge crowds in the stadium and don't give a whit about where their student fees are going-DOWN the DRAIN. 

 

Hell, I even get the massive capital improvements-we needed an update and it would look attractive to a new conference, even though we don't have an OCS, you could show that we're committed to presenting a high quality image to the country. If the basketball gets on a tourney run this year, a lot of people are going to see that beautiful new Sun Dome on TV-and we'd better hope it's full. Barring a major turnaround by Bulls football next year, we are going to be on the outside looking in for the next few years...all I can hope for is that UCF doesn't leave. That could well be the death blow for this program. 

 

first and foremost--- you are somehow under the impression that performance on the field is what these conference give a crap about-- IT IS NOT WHAT THEY CARE ABOUT. They aren't trying to make the best conference from a strength on the field standpoint-- they are looking at TV markets, fan bases, history, name recognition, academic standards, size, financial strength, and a ton of other things very far removed from sports. IF YOU CANNOT SEE THIS IS TRUE-- no amount of proper response to your arguments will ever have any impact.

 

The other problem with your argument is that it is far to micro in a macro world. You are boiling down a handful of decisions as being this huge mistake that has handcuffed the program. Trust me-- not a single P5 conference in the country gives a rats ass about what our president or AD have done in the past 10 years. They see USF in the macro -- they look at the whole, not simply the fit we are as a college sports team(s).

 

We could have gone undefeated this year and it would make zero impact on where we are or where we are going in the short term. We either meet their lofty requirements to be in the big boys club or we don't . We either have something they need (tv markets, recruiting area, scheduling fit, etc) or we don't. And when they make that decision, all the lobbying in the world by anyone from USF is going to have zero impact on whatever decision that is made. This isn't a company trying to woo a customer to buy USF. It is a bunch of elitist schools trying to make themselves better than another set of schools.

 

Maybe you just don't get it.

[smazza]

usf got left behind fellas

[gainesvillebull]

usf got left behind fellas

This but it may not be a bad thing.

[DELdaBull]

They have the money. When Nick Saban's name is being thrown around for 10M per year, a little stipend won't kill these schools

They could probably stipend all athletes for 2 or 3 million in an athletic program per year.

[NewEnglandBull]

I would rather USF be poor and win (even at a lower level) than rich and lose (see Iowa State/WVU/Wash State,etc).

[SilverBull]

This has been part of the end game all along for the big guys to eliminate potential competition from upstarts.  It's gonna happen and, when it does, I'm out of the athletic donation game.   It's all just distasteful to me. 

 

Personally, I think all this big money arms race between the colleges, the rising clamor for additional compensation to all athletes and the looming specter of head injury liability litigation is going to lead to some tough days ahead for college football.

[gainesvillebull]

This has been part of the end game all along for the big guys to eliminate potential competition from upstarts.  It's gonna happen and, when it does, I'm out of the athletic donation game.   It's all just distasteful to me. 

 

Personally, I think all this big money arms race between the colleges, the rising clamor for additional compensation to all athletes and the looming specter of head injury liability litigation is going to lead to some tough days ahead for college football.

The thing is they are pricing themselves out of the market. Gone are the days of filling up big stadiums for outrageous ticket prices when people can stay home pay a small fee to watch the game in comfort on there HD screens. This the giant that has gotten too big and will fall. These places will slowly become less about higher education and more about farm teams for the NFL which is pretty much what has already happened. The big boys will crumble it's only a matter of time. Fall of Rome my friend. 

[Bull Martin]

first and foremost--- you are somehow under the impression that performance on the field is what these conference give a crap about-- IT IS NOT WHAT THEY CARE ABOUT. They aren't trying to make the best conference from a strength on the field standpoint-- they are looking at TV markets, fan bases, history, name recognition, academic standards, size, financial strength, and a ton of other things very far removed from sports. IF YOU CANNOT SEE THIS IS TRUE-- no amount of proper response to your arguments will ever have any impact.

And yet our teams were valued enough to pull away Pitt, Syracuse (historically strong schools), WVU and Louisville (currently strong schools with some tradition), and Rutgers (all about that academia and another B1G doormat) to cripple the conference. Do you seriously believe that if we hadn't continued to produce results like 2006 and 2007 that we wouldn't have gotten into the Big 12 or the ACC if FSU or Miami left? Get real. For all we know the Big 12 is happily courting UCF over in Orlando right now, because they've managed to develop a quality program that will continue to grow given the opportunity. They took one year in a BCS conference, and managed to smack down not only the best teams formerly from C-USA, but also our premiere teams over the years in Louisville and Rutgers. We'll never know how they would have done against Syracuse or Pitt, but based on their results last year neither the Orange or the Panthers would have been able to do a dang thing. 

 

I don't blame Judy and Doug for this entirely, but I do blame them for some lack of foresight. You don't hand a football coach coming off a losing season a huge new contract with a 2.5M USD buyout. At best you give him an extra year to protect his recruiting, then fire him if he doesn't pan out. Add on the fact that you could make the case that Stan Heath is perhaps the only quality coach Woolard has hired. Holtz wasn't the man, and our Olympic sports don't matter in the revenue equation. In return, the students have deserted the program that only five years ago was putting huge crowds in the stadium and don't give a whit about where their student fees are going-DOWN the DRAIN. 

 

Hell, I even get the massive capital improvements-we needed an update and it would look attractive to a new conference, even though we don't have an OCS, you could show that we're committed to presenting a high quality image to the country. If the basketball gets on a tourney run this year, a lot of people are going to see that beautiful new Sun Dome on TV-and we'd better hope it's full. Barring a major turnaround by Bulls football next year, we are going to be on the outside looking in for the next few years...all I can hope for is that UCF doesn't leave. That could well be the death blow for this program. 

 

 

The other problem with your argument is that it is far to micro in a macro world. You are boiling down a handful of decisions as being this huge mistake that has handcuffed the program. Trust me-- not a single P5 conference in the country gives a rats ass about what our president or AD have done in the past 10 years. They see USF in the macro -- they look at the whole, not simply the fit we are as a college sports team(s).

 

We could have gone undefeated this year and it would make zero impact on where we are or where we are going in the short term. We either meet their lofty requirements to be in the big boys club or we don't . We either have something they need (tv markets, recruiting area, scheduling fit, etc) or we don't. And when they make that decision, all the lobbying in the world by anyone from USF is going to have zero impact on whatever decision that is made. This isn't a company trying to woo a customer to buy USF. It is a bunch of elitist schools trying to make themselves better than another set of schools.

 

Maybe you just don't get it.

 

 

Too be fair, USF is still a very young football program.

 

If USF had managed to maintain a top 25 level in football the last 6 years after 2007, the things that conferences look at TV Ratings, fan base, name recognition, etc... would be leaps and bounds ahead of where it stands today.  The 6 year fall from grace is 35% of USF's entire football history.  

 

Tampa Bay, like many others, is a very finicky fan base.  When the Bucs were winning football, they had a 10 year waiting list for season tickets.  Now I doubt they could fill the place with free tickets.  If we had a product the community could get behind, I think the situation we are in now could have been different.

 

One year does not a P5 candidate make, but we've lost the ability to show sustained success.  Our best bet is that the next wave of expansion happens, but not for 4-5 years and we turn the ship around fast and maintain.