Woolard

[Triple B]

Weren't we having this conversation about an extension for Heath as well a year or so ago? Not quite sure. But part of giving an extension to any college coach is to have some consistency in the program and helping with recruiting. I was not a big fan of Heath's, but I did say that I thought a coaching carousel really does no good when you can't afford John Calipari and that type coach. Bringing in a different coach every two years isn't going to solve the problem when you are USF with limited financial resources. My guess is that was the thinking by Doug. What do the recruits do when they find out the guy they have verbally comitted to isn't going to be there? Skip faced that when he took over for Leavitt.

I am not saying that Skip is the answer, but when looking at the big picture I can understand Doug's decision. Things are bleak right now. But let's say you bring in a new, probably unproven coach with what we can afford, and there is no improvement in two years. Then what? Go out and bring in a new guy for another two years. This looks to be a similar situation as basketball. Look, the style of basketball we play is ugly but it worked out pretty well last year. Our football is looking really ugly right now. But maybe next year or the year after we see some improvement. If not, then you fire him and give the next guy at least 3 years to show some improvement. I have no problem with changing some coordinators or coaches.

Even a homer like me is still not seeing it. Even though the 2011 5-7 record was a little misleading due to the closeness of the losses, he still had two years to go when he gave him the extension. I thought, unless there were special accomplishments like for Stan's extensions, coaches got the added years at the end of the season previous to the final one on the contract. I don't really understand it .... but it's also not egregious enough that it overshadows all the good stuff Woolard has done here. Needs to be some serious "Come to Jesus talks" between Doug and Skip at the end of the year if things don't get turned around.

[DELdaBull]

Weren't we having this conversation about an extension for Heath as well a year or so ago? Not quite sure. But part of giving an extension to any college coach is to have some consistency in the program and helping with recruiting. I was not a big fan of Heath's, but I did say that I thought a coaching carousel really does no good when you can't afford John Calipari and that type coach. Bringing in a different coach every two years isn't going to solve the problem when you are USF with limited financial resources. My guess is that was the thinking by Doug. What do the recruits do when they find out the guy they have verbally comitted to isn't going to be there? Skip faced that when he took over for Leavitt.

I am not saying that Skip is the answer, but when looking at the big picture I can understand Doug's decision. Things are bleak right now. But let's say you bring in a new, probably unproven coach with what we can afford, and there is no improvement in two years. Then what? Go out and bring in a new guy for another two years. This looks to be a similar situation as basketball. Look, the style of basketball we play is ugly but it worked out pretty well last year. Our football is looking really ugly right now. But maybe next year or the year after we see some improvement. If not, then you fire him and give the next guy at least 3 years to show some improvement. I have no problem with changing some coordinators or coaches.

Even a homer like me is still not seeing it. Even though the 2011 5-7 record was a little misleading due to the closeness of the losses, he still had THREE years to go when he gave him the extension. I thought, unless there were special accomplishments like for Stan's extensions, coaches got the added years at the end of the season previous to the final one (or two) on the contract. I don't really understand it .... but it's also not egregious enough that it overshadows all the good stuff Woolard has done here. Needs to be some serious "Come to Jesus talks" between Doug and Skip at the end of the year if things don't get turned around.

fify

[MikeG]

You can't compare the state of the football program when Holtz took over to the state of the basketball program when Heath took over. The two are FAR from one and the same. USF b-ball was the "toughest job in America" when Heath signed on. It was pretty piss poor. USF football wasn't great, but it wasn't bad either.

People keep comparing Holtz and Heath. You cannot. Not to mention Heath got his extension after 3 years. In year three USF won 20+ games for just the third time in school history. The Holtz extension was after year 2. Coming off a 5 win season.

Apples and oranges.

I think they were just comparing the situations at the time of the extensions-- which were kind of similar in that both teams were struggling. whether that was already happening for years or a new situation-- it was a little out of the ordinary to a lot of us here.

But I do agree in one respect that the need for an extension in hoops is critical to recruiting-- especially since you are talking about 4 or 5 recruits a season -- a much smaller set of players where a miss or a decommit can drastically impact the future outlook versus the 15-25 you see every football season.

[Reliable Source]

But let's say you bring in a new, probably unproven coach with what we can afford, and there is no improvement in two years

What we can afford???? Skip makes more than Dabo Swinney, Al Golden, Bill Snyder(KSU), RichRod, David Shaw(Stanford), Chris Peterson(BSU), Derek Dooley(TN) and slightly less than Frank Beamer, Charlie Strong and Bill O'Brien. Are we really crying about how little we pay our coach? Coaches will kill to get this job. Best recruiting in the country, a program that WAS up and coming and good $. Whining that we can't pay enough to get a coach is a joke.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Bullwinkle

[Triple B]

Weren't we having this conversation about an extension for Heath as well a year or so ago? Not quite sure. But part of giving an extension to any college coach is to have some consistency in the program and helping with recruiting. I was not a big fan of Heath's, but I did say that I thought a coaching carousel really does no good when you can't afford John Calipari and that type coach. Bringing in a different coach every two years isn't going to solve the problem when you are USF with limited financial resources. My guess is that was the thinking by Doug. What do the recruits do when they find out the guy they have verbally comitted to isn't going to be there? Skip faced that when he took over for Leavitt.

I am not saying that Skip is the answer, but when looking at the big picture I can understand Doug's decision. Things are bleak right now. But let's say you bring in a new, probably unproven coach with what we can afford, and there is no improvement in two years. Then what? Go out and bring in a new guy for another two years. This looks to be a similar situation as basketball. Look, the style of basketball we play is ugly but it worked out pretty well last year. Our football is looking really ugly right now. But maybe next year or the year after we see some improvement. If not, then you fire him and give the next guy at least 3 years to show some improvement. I have no problem with changing some coordinators or coaches.

Even a homer like me is still not seeing it. Even though the 2011 5-7 record was a little misleading due to the closeness of the losses, he still had THREE years to go when he gave him the extension. I thought, unless there were special accomplishments like for Stan's extensions, coaches got the added years at the end of the season previous to the final one (or two) on the contract. I don't really understand it .... but it's also not egregious enough that it overshadows all the good stuff Woolard has done here. Needs to be some serious "Come to Jesus talks" between Doug and Skip at the end of the year if things don't get turned around.

fify

Yep, first thing I brought up said he originally signed a 4 year contract but I should have looked further .... makes even less sense since he had 3 years left.

[Ghost]

But let's say you bring in a new, probably unproven coach with what we can afford, and there is no improvement in two years

What we can afford???? Skip makes more than Dabo Swinney, Al Golden, Bill Snyder(KSU), RichRod, David Shaw(Stanford), Chris Peterson(BSU), Derek Dooley(TN) and slightly less than Frank Beamer, Charlie Strong and Bill O'Brien. Are we really crying about how little we pay our coach? Coaches will kill to get this job. Best recruiting in the country, a program that WAS up and coming and good $. Whining that we can't pay enough to get a coach is a joke.

x2.

[CousinRicky]

But let's say you bring in a new, probably unproven coach with what we can afford, and there is no improvement in two years

What we can afford???? Skip makes more than Dabo Swinney, Al Golden, Bill Snyder(KSU), RichRod, David Shaw(Stanford), Chris Peterson(BSU), Derek Dooley(TN) and slightly less than Frank Beamer, Charlie Strong and Bill O'Brien. Are we really crying about how little we pay our coach? Coaches will kill to get this job. Best recruiting in the country, a program that WAS up and coming and good $. Whining that we can't pay enough to get a coach is a joke.

I was thinking that we'll be able to afford less with having to buy him out. I agree that he gets paid well.