Tom Jones: Skip Holtz bears responsibility for USF Bulls' woes

[Triple B]

he smartened up near the end, Holtz seems like a good guy, and a coach deserves at least four seasons to build a team full of his own recruits before we start looking for the buyout clause in his contract.

Tell that to Colorado fans. I'm sure they're ecstactic about the state of their program after they were patient in giving Dan Hawkins (who's resume was arguably much better than Skips) atleast 4 years.

I don't how many times it has to be said, Holtz did not walk into a rebuild. He walked into a program that had gone to 5 straight bowl games, with 4 straight seasons of 8+ wins. He walked into a weaker Big East than those teams had competed against. He now has that program heading backwards.

If a coach needs an entire roster of "his" players, then in reality, he's not a good coach. Good coaches adjust. Charlie Strong walked into a rebuild. A program that had gone 9-15 total and 2-12 in Big East play his prior two seasons. He quickly has them at 8-6 in conference play in his two years there, and now 4-0 ranked with 2 wins vs BCS teams. He took what was there and worked with. He didn't take what was there, and then try to shove it into his pre-determined mold.

Interesting to note that fans that are upset with a 3-9 slide against a very weak schedule, fans that have outlined in detail in many cases the many things wrong with this program, provided examples, trends, stats, etc... are "clueless". I guess I'm still waiting for those "superfans" on here to help us poor lost clueless souls out in getting a "clue" and showing us there error in our ways in identifing exactly what we are missing that would provide reason to believe that we should be patient with Holtz beyond this year despite another possible losing season.

So you're saying he should be fired right NOW?

[Bullshiznitz]

he smartened up near the end, Holtz seems like a good guy, and a coach deserves at least four seasons to build a team full of his own recruits before we start looking for the buyout clause in his contract.

Tell that to Colorado fans. I'm sure they're ecstactic about the state of their program after they were patient in giving Dan Hawkins (who's resume was arguably much better than Skips) atleast 4 years.

I don't how many times it has to be said, Holtz did not walk into a rebuild. He walked into a program that had gone to 5 straight bowl games, with 4 straight seasons of 8+ wins. He walked into a weaker Big East than those teams had competed against. He now has that program heading backwards.

If a coach needs an entire roster of "his" players, then in reality, he's not a good coach. Good coaches adjust. Charlie Strong walked into a rebuild. A program that had gone 9-15 total and 2-12 in Big East play his prior two seasons. He quickly has them at 8-6 in conference play in his two years there, and now 4-0 ranked with 2 wins vs BCS teams. He took what was there and worked with. He didn't take what was there, and then try to shove it into his pre-determined mold.

Interesting to note that fans that are upset with a 3-9 slide against a very weak schedule, fans that have outlined in detail in many cases the many things wrong with this program, provided examples, trends, stats, etc... are "clueless". I guess I'm still waiting for those "superfans" on here to help us poor lost clueless souls out in getting a "clue" and showing us there error in our ways in identifing exactly what we are missing that would provide reason to believe that we should be patient with Holtz beyond this year despite another possible losing season.

So you're saying he should be fired right NOW?

Nope, never said that or would. He deserves this season. I just think myself, like many fans on here are simply prognosticating that this season is likely not to go well(based on last year, and current year results). And if that is the case, then yes, Judy and Doug should be looking and planning for other options now. If we have another bowl-less season, or fail to really show any positive improvement in some areas to show hope that things would/should turn around next year, then I see no point in being patient. Being patient could turn out good, but just as likely if not more to turn out horribly and set the program back several years.

I will be more than happy to be incorrect in my assumptions for this year so far. In fact I hope Skip and Company will be serving me a big ole plate of crow with a side of mashed crow and some crow pudding at the end of the year. I just don't see it happening, and hope those in charge atleast have this in mind.

[widerberg]

I don't how many times it has to be said, Holtz did not walk into a rebuild. He walked into a program that had gone to 5 straight bowl games, with 4 straight seasons of 8+ wins. He walked into a weaker Big East than those teams had competed against. He now has that program heading backwards.

^ This right here is the truth.

I've been too bummed to do anything but lurk on the board for most of this season. I appreciate those who are not calling for Holtz's head, just as much as those who are. But, for those saying ridiculous things like "well, what if we win out?", what possible evidence have you seen of any kind of skill or plan that would lead to us winning out? Short of mass food poisoning or a forfeit of the opponent, how are we going to win out? How can we stink it up for 2 years and then suddenly have everything fall into place and become a powerhouse? That's more deluded than calling for Holtz's head based on actual, observed reality that we've all witnessed. Based on what has actually happened on the field, the much likelier scenario is that we don't win any more games this season. That sucks.

[thebouncer1898]

Good factual article written right there. It's all true. Holtz has been a failure so far. Lots of hype, bad results.

He went 12-12 in his first two years at ECU. He started out 12-12 here, excluding the bowl game win.

I guess he should get shitcanned.

We didn't bring him here so he could turn us into ECU. Also, notice that Skip's teams got better the longer he was there. Am I out of line for thinking that we'd be getting at least ECU level production for $2 million?

Umm....starting 12-12 at both schools seems like its pretty much the same start. But they gave him 5 years. Maybe we shouldn't jump to the future and suggest the program is ruined. Let it play out. If the team continues to stink, give him the ol' heave ho.

I notice you didn't mention that third year for both schools...

It's pretty hard to compare a completed season, to one that isnt half way over. If you want to play the "What If" game, what if USF goes undefeated the rest of the way and plays in the Orange Bowl?

Orange Bowl? Orange Bowl? Don't talk about the Orange Bowl! Are you kidding me?! Orange Bowl?

Even the most die hard Skip supporter laughed at the Orange Bowl comment. I think even his dad spit more than usual when he read it.

Well, if they go undefeated and win the Big East, they'll play in a BCS game. Most likely the Orange Bowl. Remember, we are playing the "What If" game.

[CousinRicky]

Good factual article written right there. It's all true. Holtz has been a failure so far. Lots of hype, bad results.

He went 12-12 in his first two years at ECU. He started out 12-12 here, excluding the bowl game win.

I guess he should get shitcanned.

We didn't bring him here so he could turn us into ECU. Also, notice that Skip's teams got better the longer he was there. Am I out of line for thinking that we'd be getting at least ECU level production for $2 million?

Umm....starting 12-12 at both schools seems like its pretty much the same start. But they gave him 5 years. Maybe we shouldn't jump to the future and suggest the program is ruined. Let it play out. If the team continues to stink, give him the ol' heave ho.

I notice you didn't mention that third year for both schools...

It's pretty hard to compare a completed season, to one that isnt half way over. If you want to play the "What If" game, what if USF goes undefeated the rest of the way and plays in the Orange Bowl?

Orange Bowl? Orange Bowl? Don't talk about the Orange Bowl! Are you kidding me?! Orange Bowl?

I see what you did there.

[Hem]

[BDYZR]

I don't how many times it has to be said, Holtz did not walk into a rebuild. He walked into a program that had gone to 5 straight bowl games, with 4 straight seasons of 8+ wins. He walked into a weaker Big East than those teams had competed against. He now has that program heading backwards.

^ This right here is the truth.

I've been too bummed to do anything but lurk on the board for most of this season. I appreciate those who are not calling for Holtz's head, just as much as those who are. But, for those saying ridiculous things like "well, what if we win out?", what possible evidence have you seen of any kind of skill or plan that would lead to us winning out? Short of mass food poisoning or a forfeit of the opponent, how are we going to win out? How can we stink it up for 2 years and then suddenly have everything fall into place and become a powerhouse? That's more deluded than calling for Holtz's head based on actual, observed reality that we've all witnessed. Based on what has actually happened on the field, the much likelier scenario is that we don't win any more games this season. That sucks.

I agree with widerberg, what has anyone seen from this team, this year, to make you think this team can win out?

Or win period? I have seen a lack of effort and confusion from day one of this year. Players consistently out of position. Players constantly getting beat at the point of attack. Standing on the field waiting patiently for a coach to make a call, then walking to the line. ETC, ETC.

[Mission9]

Good factual article written right there. It's all true. Holtz has been a failure so far. Lots of hype, bad results.

He went 12-12 in his first two years at ECU. He started out 12-12 here, excluding the bowl game win.

I guess he should get shitcanned.

We didn't bring him here so he could turn us into ECU. Also, notice that Skip's teams got better the longer he was there. Am I out of line for thinking that we'd be getting at least ECU level production for $2 million?

Umm....starting 12-12 at both schools seems like its pretty much the same start. But they gave him 5 years. Maybe we shouldn't jump to the future and suggest the program is ruined. Let it play out. If the team continues to stink, give him the ol' heave ho.

I notice you didn't mention that third year for both schools...

It's pretty hard to compare a completed season, to one that isnt half way over. If you want to play the "What If" game, what if USF goes undefeated the rest of the way and plays in the Orange Bowl?

Orange Bowl? Orange Bowl? Don't talk about the Orange Bowl! Are you kidding me?! Orange Bowl?

I see what you did there.

I figured most fellow NFL fans would figure it out. I just hope we can win "a" game too.

[hm101]

He should not be fired right now. But he needs an aggressive reminder that this performance is unacceptable; from the media, the administration, and the fans.

[Mission9]

He should not be fired right now. But he needs an aggressive reminder that this performance is unacceptable; from the media, the administration, and the fans.

You will not get help from most of the media. They like Skip and revel in our suckage.