What do you guys think it would look like if we went Independent in all sports?

[Mike Stuben]

13 minutes ago, 79 Bull said:

In answer to the OP, it is basically impossible to be an independent in olympic sports. I've never heard of a team in D1 doing that, but I could be wrong.

Even Notre Dame and Army are in leagues for everything but football. If we were to try it, our schedules in many sports would be full of D2 opponents. 

[puc86]

9 minutes ago, Mike Stuben said:

Even Notre Dame and Army are in leagues for everything but football. If we were to try it, our schedules in many sports would be full of D2 opponents. 

As luck would have it we were in a conference that had a landing place for everything but football that had a lot more panache than what would become the AAC. Side with the basketball schools, become independent in football, have people remember you as being left behind in the conference reshuffle and not voluntarily lumping yourself together with teams you moved to your level and are now directly competing with and be ready willing and able to join a better conference at anytime for any reason (or even better try to get no one to be on board with adding any new football schools, keep playing the left behinds and just be quasi independent while not lumping yourself together with the teams you had differentiated yourself against). How creating the AAC with the call ups would go for us should have been painfully obvious to everyone before the first AAC game was ever played, you cannot play with    and not get some on you. 

 

[Brad]

25 minutes ago, puc86 said:

Side with the basketball schools, become independent in football, have people remember you as being left behind in the conference reshuffle and not voluntarily lumping yourself together with teams you moved to your level and are now directly competing with and be ready willing and able to join a better conference at anytime for any reason.

 

[Bull Matrix]

We are getting tons from being in the AAC. Make no sense to get less by going independent 

[Triple B]

4 hours ago, puc86 said:

How creating the AAC with the call ups would go for us should have been painfully obvious to everyone before the first AAC game was ever played, you cannot play with    and not get some on you.

So at the time it was good enough for Athletic programs with a helluvalot more success than us but we were too good for the AAC back then ..... Some Bulls fans sense of entitlement, based on Lord knows what, is a ******* joke at times.

[puc86]

41 minutes ago, Triple B said:

So at the time it was good enough for Athletic programs with a helluvalot more success than us but we were too good for the AAC back then ..... Some Bulls fans sense of entitlement, based on Lord knows what, is a ******* joke at times.

There is no one that raises their profile by moving people below them up to their level, any conference that brings up teams does not create stability and lives in a constant state of instability. Imagine that the team that had the least amount of differentiation and had the closest alternative to them brought on board was the one that stood the most to lose by the let’s just make the conference stronger by bringing on worse parts stood the most to lose and should avoid that path by any means necessary, novel! It’s not entitlement it’s common sense that you don’t squander your market differentiation by bringing people up to your level because as much as they go up you also go down.

Edited April 3, 2023 by puc86

[Brad]

1 hour ago, Triple B said:

So at the time it was good enough for Athletic programs with a helluvalot more success than us

Who was that?  Cincinnati?

[Cornada]

Stadium attendance would start looking like the old UCF games.

 

[Mission9]

Like a lot of things in life, there are choices which sound better than the current situation but a closer inspection makes things a little more complicated. 

I will stick with the three sports I know a little about and leave the others to those in the know.  In general there would be the probability of a lot less TV money.  Also, a lot fewer games being available to televise unless the team USF is playing is affiliated with a conference with an excellent TV contract.  You might get a local independent station to show a game or two but that is the extent of that.   In men's basketball, I only know of 2 teams which are independent.  They are Chicago St. and Hartford.  Not only are those 2 not exactly name brands, I think Hartford has chosen to step down to Division III.    I acknowledge the terrible fact that USF men's basketball postseason is an occurance similar to a comet sighting but I would argue if USF plays a similar schedule to the ones they did in those post season years as an independent, they would have only made it the year they were in the CBI.  The baseball team of a couple of years ago would not have been able to even sniff the post season as an independent. 

Football is a little different, of course, but there would still be issues we as fans would have to live with.  Now, if this 12 team playoff format does happen, we would have to live with the fact that if the team somehow had a great season, they could win each and every game but still be left out.  Obviously that is not the case if they did so in even a watered down AAC.  Scheduling at times could be problematic.  I seem to remember football Independents Liberty and New Mexico St. having to play twice in one season due to scheduling issues. Even as a new member of CUSA, USF had to play two 1AA teams that year.  You can rattle off brand names you want USF to play but you have to get them to play you.  It is not like the NFL where the league sets the entire schedule. You probably would see USF only being able to play 4 or 5 home games unless they decided to step down in class more than once a season.  That is problematic if you wish to build your own stadium.  Finally, I think most these days would be ok if USF did not make one of those lower tier bowls due to not being in a conference.  That would be the reality though and we experienced that in 2002.  That was a very good team and yet they were shut out.  

The situation is not great at all but with the points above, I do not see how things would be better except for making our collective egos feel better. While I would not be against independence, I fail to see how it would improve USF's situation financially or as far as getting exposure.

I will add my thought or question on one thing Puc brought up which would have been interesting had it played out.  If USF back in 2012 had stated they would go independent in football and stay in the Big East for everything else, would the Big East have accepted that?  I have no idea at all.  

Edited April 4, 2023 by Mission9

[Outlaw]

5 minutes ago, Mission9 said:

Like a lot of things in life, there are choices which sound better than the current situation but a closer inspection makes things a little more complicated. 

I will stick with the three sports I know a little about and leave the others to those in the know.  In general there would be the probability of a lot less TV money.  Also, a lot fewer games being available to televise unless the team USF is playing is affiliated with a conference with an excellent TV contract.  You might get a local independent station to show a game or two but that is the extent of that.   In men's basketball, I only know of 2 teams which are independent.  They are Chicago St. and Hartford.  Not only are those 2 not exactly name brands, I think Hartford has chosen to step down to Division III.    I acknowledge the terrible fact that USF men's basketball postseason is an occurance similar to a comet sighting but I would argue if USF plays a similar schedule to the ones they did in those post season years as an independent, they would have only made it the year they were in the CBI.  The baseball team of a couple of years ago would not have been able to even sniff the post season as an independent. 

Football is a little different, of course, but there would still be issues we as fans would have to live with.  Now, if this 12 team playoff format does happen, we would have to live with the fact that if the team somehow had a great season, they could win each and every game but still be left out.  Obviously that is not the case if they did so in even a watered down AAC.  Scheduling at times could be problematic.  I seem to remember football Independents Liberty and New Mexico St. having to play twice in one season due to scheduling issues. Even as a new member of CUSA, USF had to play two 1AA teams that year.  You can rattle off brand names you want USF to play but you have to get them to play you.  It is not like the NFL where the league sets the entire schedule. You probably would see USF only being able to play 4 or 5 home games unless they decided to step down in class more than once a season.  That is problematic if you wish to build your own stadium.  Finally, I think most these days would be ok if USF did not make one of those lower tier bowls due to not being in a conference.  That would be the reality though and we experienced that in 2002.  That was a very good team and yet they were shut out.  

The situation is not great at all but with the points above, I do not see how things would be better except for making our collective egos feel better. While I would not be against independence, I fail to see how it would improve USF's situation financially or as far as getting exposure.

I will add my thought or question on one thing Puc brought up which would have been interesting had it played out.  If USF back in 2012 had stated they would go independent in football and stay in the Big East for everything else, would the Big East have accepted that?  I have no idea at all.  

There are ranked teams and unranked teams embarrassing USF on the field consistently over the last three to five years. We can't judge until we start beating teams in our own conference consistently. Ever since the firing of the Godfather Leavitt and collapse on the BIG EAST outside of a couple years we have been pure cow patties. IT is time to step it up and get rid of guys that can't get the job done in the athletic office.