Holtz and The Peter Principle

[Cow Pie]

Not to shiz on the original poster but how did you just find out about the peter principle... I knew about this in 5th grade. Maybe its a sign that I have finally passed the line that separates a young buck from an old turd

Regarding the peter principle I think you did nail it with Holtz... he has petered out as has 90% of USF Managers... just had a meeting with the manager I report to about ideas to increase student enrollment in a certain undergrad program and brought up how UCF is kicking our teeth in enrollments for this ug program, and that we need to figure a way out to compete against UCF and stomp them into the mud.

The manager I report to said... "Oh No, we don't need to compete... we should instead foster a mutual relationship of shared ideas and thoughts so UCF see's USF as an ally or peer and not a competitor so they will tell their students to attend USF instead"... I can't make this **** up...

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills while in a mad house...

Edited October 11, 2012 by Bubba Bull

[CousinRicky]

Hey! Another thread about how our head coach sucks/is over his head/just doesn't care.

And how this level is so much higher than where he was ..... break out the goggles. We have a problem, and I don't know what exactly it is, but it's not because Skip, himself, is all of a sudden in over his head.

Trip I don't know. I never was a big fan of the Skip hire in part because of his style which was IMO a not to win but stay close and not lose. The other part again just IMO is bringing in a C-USA coach I think they are used to certain level of play and certain level of player. Regardless of what ESPN or other media say I feel the BE has a very high level of play and players. It can be a tough transition and so far it doesn't seem Skip has transitioned well. Can Skip coach in the BE,SEC,Big-10,PAC-10 etc - maybe - I don't know but his performance here doesn't bode well.

Trepidation about his style I can understand if you have that ... the conference he's coming from, not so much. Brian Kelly came from the MAC to the BE... Urban Meyer went from the MAC to the Mountain West (not putting Skip in their class, obviously, but just offering examples). Plus, he had more BCS wins at ECU than he has conference wins here. It's not like he's facing the type competition he's never seen before. In fact, Skip seems to be more adept at winning ooc BCS games than conference ones. Maybe we should go independent.... Bottom line, to me, there really was no good reason to question the hire, IMO.

2 examples of coaches moving up and being successful is not proof that holtz hasn't hit his ceiling. it's also not proof that those conferences are anywhere near the level of the big east. steve kragthorpe was successful at tulsa in c-usa and bombed out at uofl.

chip kelly coached in division 2(as did brian kelly). does that mean the competition among coaches and players in division 2 is at the same level of the pac 12? of course not.

Pay attention, Shirley. We were discussing at the time of the hire, and there was no reason to question it THEN just because he came from a conference supposedly light years behind the mighty Big East ... especially since he had wins over similar type programs to the BE. Others had made similar jumps and been successful.

did I say anything about questioning the hire? no.

your logic is flawed to say the least. you use 2 coaches that had success at a lower level to somehow prove the level he coached at was on par with the big east and he could make the jump. that's like saying gus malzahn had success as a high school coach. he also had success as an OC in the SEC. therefore the SEC and hgih school levels must be similar in strength, we should hire a high school coach for OC. it's moronic.

everyone has their ceiling. saban couldn't hack it in the pros. neither could petrino. plenty of coaches have had success at a lower level and then bombed when they moved up.whether or not you want to believe it, the big east is light years ahead of c-usa. BTW going 9-5 in his best year against c-usa competition is not anything like what urban meyer and brian kelly did previously.

I believe the OP posted the Peter Principle that pretty much says that you'll get promoted until you fail. No one knew Saban or Petrino or Holtz would fail until they got that promotion. There was nothing in their history that said they would fail. Just don't know it until it happens.

[Bull94]

Hey! Another thread about how our head coach sucks/is over his head/just doesn't care.

And how this level is so much higher than where he was ..... break out the goggles. We have a problem, and I don't know what exactly it is, but it's not because Skip, himself, is all of a sudden in over his head.

Trip I don't know. I never was a big fan of the Skip hire in part because of his style which was IMO a not to win but stay close and not lose. The other part again just IMO is bringing in a C-USA coach I think they are used to certain level of play and certain level of player. Regardless of what ESPN or other media say I feel the BE has a very high level of play and players. It can be a tough transition and so far it doesn't seem Skip has transitioned well. Can Skip coach in the BE,SEC,Big-10,PAC-10 etc - maybe - I don't know but his performance here doesn't bode well.

Trepidation about his style I can understand if you have that ... the conference he's coming from, not so much. Brian Kelly came from the MAC to the BE... Urban Meyer went from the MAC to the Mountain West (not putting Skip in their class, obviously, but just offering examples). Plus, he had more BCS wins at ECU than he has conference wins here. It's not like he's facing the type competition he's never seen before. In fact, Skip seems to be more adept at winning ooc BCS games than conference ones. Maybe we should go independent.... Bottom line, to me, there really was no good reason to question the hire, IMO.

2 examples of coaches moving up and being successful is not proof that holtz hasn't hit his ceiling. it's also not proof that those conferences are anywhere near the level of the big east. steve kragthorpe was successful at tulsa in c-usa and bombed out at uofl.

chip kelly coached in division 2(as did brian kelly). does that mean the competition among coaches and players in division 2 is at the same level of the pac 12? of course not.

Pay attention, Shirley. We were discussing at the time of the hire, and there was no reason to question it THEN just because he came from a conference supposedly light years behind the mighty Big East ... especially since he had wins over similar type programs to the BE. Others had made similar jumps and been successful.

did I say anything about questioning the hire? no.

If you're not questioning the hire, then shut the **** up! That's what that particular part of the conversation with 80 was about ...

that was the whole basis of your argument. your reasoning is flawed.

[Gismo]

Not to shiz on the original poster but how did you just find out about the peter principle... I knew about this in 5th grade. Maybe its a sign that I have finally passed the line that separates a young buck from an old turd

Guess I still have a lot of learning to do. Engineering departments don't teach this stuff. Maybe now I'll be more aware of my own incompetence, so long blissful ignorance.

[Bull94]

Hey! Another thread about how our head coach sucks/is over his head/just doesn't care.

And how this level is so much higher than where he was ..... break out the goggles. We have a problem, and I don't know what exactly it is, but it's not because Skip, himself, is all of a sudden in over his head.

Trip I don't know. I never was a big fan of the Skip hire in part because of his style which was IMO a not to win but stay close and not lose. The other part again just IMO is bringing in a C-USA coach I think they are used to certain level of play and certain level of player. Regardless of what ESPN or other media say I feel the BE has a very high level of play and players. It can be a tough transition and so far it doesn't seem Skip has transitioned well. Can Skip coach in the BE,SEC,Big-10,PAC-10 etc - maybe - I don't know but his performance here doesn't bode well.

Trepidation about his style I can understand if you have that ... the conference he's coming from, not so much. Brian Kelly came from the MAC to the BE... Urban Meyer went from the MAC to the Mountain West (not putting Skip in their class, obviously, but just offering examples). Plus, he had more BCS wins at ECU than he has conference wins here. It's not like he's facing the type competition he's never seen before. In fact, Skip seems to be more adept at winning ooc BCS games than conference ones. Maybe we should go independent.... Bottom line, to me, there really was no good reason to question the hire, IMO.

2 examples of coaches moving up and being successful is not proof that holtz hasn't hit his ceiling. it's also not proof that those conferences are anywhere near the level of the big east. steve kragthorpe was successful at tulsa in c-usa and bombed out at uofl.

chip kelly coached in division 2(as did brian kelly). does that mean the competition among coaches and players in division 2 is at the same level of the pac 12? of course not.

Pay attention, Shirley. We were discussing at the time of the hire, and there was no reason to question it THEN just because he came from a conference supposedly light years behind the mighty Big East ... especially since he had wins over similar type programs to the BE. Others had made similar jumps and been successful.

did I say anything about questioning the hire? no.

your logic is flawed to say the least. you use 2 coaches that had success at a lower level to somehow prove the level he coached at was on par with the big east and he could make the jump. that's like saying gus malzahn had success as a high school coach. he also had success as an OC in the SEC. therefore the SEC and hgih school levels must be similar in strength, we should hire a high school coach for OC. it's moronic.

everyone has their ceiling. saban couldn't hack it in the pros. neither could petrino. plenty of coaches have had success at a lower level and then bombed when they moved up.whether or not you want to believe it, the big east is light years ahead of c-usa. BTW going 9-5 in his best year against c-usa competition is not anything like what urban meyer and brian kelly did previously.

I believe the OP posted the Peter Principle that pretty much says that you'll get promoted until you fail. No one knew Saban or Petrino or Holtz would fail until they got that promotion. There was nothing in their history that said they would fail. Just don't know it until it happens.

I wasn't arguing the hire. his basis for his argument was flawed. that's it. not arguing his conclusion. triple likes to argue semantics.

[Triple B]

I wasn't arguing the hire. his basis for his argument was flawed. that's it. not arguing his conclusion. triple likes to argue semantics.

dabull80 and I were, at the point he was actually hired, you moron, and that's where you stuck your nose in. Not sure how many ways I can say that so it sinks in ... This has nothing to do with semantics. It has to do with you so quick to argue about anything and everything that you don't know what the hell you're arguing about.

[Triple B]

Not to shiz on the original poster but how did you just find out about the peter principle... I knew about this in 5th grade. Maybe its a sign that I have finally passed the line that separates a young buck from an old turd

Guess I still have a lot of learning to do. Engineering departments don't teach this stuff. Maybe now I'll be more aware of my own incompetence, so long blissful ignorance.

What about Murphy's Law? Did they teach that one? ..... Wouldn't be hard to generate a thread about that for this year.

[Gismo]

Not to shiz on the original poster but how did you just find out about the peter principle... I knew about this in 5th grade. Maybe its a sign that I have finally passed the line that separates a young buck from an old turd

Guess I still have a lot of learning to do. Engineering departments don't teach this stuff. Maybe now I'll be more aware of my own incompetence, so long blissful ignorance.

What about Murphy's Law? Did they teach that one? ..... Wouldn't be hard to generate a thread about that for this year.

Ya they covered that one but I'd already picked it up before that.

[DELdaBull]

Not to shiz on the original poster but how did you just find out about the peter principle... I knew about this in 5th grade. Maybe its a sign that I have finally passed the line that separates a young buck from an old turd

Regarding the peter principle I think you did nail it with Holtz... he has petered out as has 90% of USF Managers... just had a meeting with the manager I report to about ideas to increase student enrollment in a certain undergrad program and brought up how UCF is kicking our teeth in enrollments for this ug program, and that we need to figure a way out to compete against UCF and stomp them into the mud.

The manager I report to said... "Oh No, we don't need to compete... we should instead foster a mutual relationship of shared ideas and thoughts so UCF see's USF as an ally or peer and not a competitor so they will tell their students to attend USF instead"... I can't make this **** up...

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills while in a mad house...

It should be the goal of every department at USF to crush and destroy UCF. We need to create separation.

[Cow Pie]

Not to shiz on the original poster but how did you just find out about the peter principle... I knew about this in 5th grade. Maybe its a sign that I have finally passed the line that separates a young buck from an old turd

Regarding the peter principle I think you did nail it with Holtz... he has petered out as has 90% of USF Managers... just had a meeting with the manager I report to about ideas to increase student enrollment in a certain undergrad program and brought up how UCF is kicking our teeth in enrollments for this ug program, and that we need to figure a way out to compete against UCF and stomp them into the mud.

The manager I report to said... "Oh No, we don't need to compete... we should instead foster a mutual relationship of shared ideas and thoughts so UCF see's USF as an ally or peer and not a competitor so they will tell their students to attend USF instead"... I can't make this **** up...

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills while in a mad house...

It should be the goal of every department at USF to crush and destroy UCF. We need to create separation.

Your telling me... sad part is that from what I gather most of the people in charge oppose competition and instead believe that we should "partner" up with other colleges to work together... of course most of the people in charge have never actually had a real job outside of academia so there in lies the problem.

If Holtz is any way like the person I report to then I fully understand why the players have given up... to hear the leader of our dept. say that we should basically beg UCF to give us some business was demoralizing and a wake up call that I need to dust off the ole resume and look elsewhere before this baffoon wrecks my dept.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Bubba Bull