Holtz and The Peter Principle

[Triple B]

Hey! Another thread about how our head coach sucks/is over his head/just doesn't care.

And how this level is so much higher than where he was ..... break out the goggles. We have a problem, and I don't know what exactly it is, but it's not because Skip, himself, is all of a sudden in over his head.

Trip I don't know. I never was a big fan of the Skip hire in part because of his style which was IMO a not to win but stay close and not lose. The other part again just IMO is bringing in a C-USA coach I think they are used to certain level of play and certain level of player. Regardless of what ESPN or other media say I feel the BE has a very high level of play and players. It can be a tough transition and so far it doesn't seem Skip has transitioned well. Can Skip coach in the BE,SEC,Big-10,PAC-10 etc - maybe - I don't know but his performance here doesn't bode well.

Trepidation about his style I can understand if you have that ... the conference he's coming from, not so much. Brian Kelly came from the MAC to the BE... Urban Meyer went from the MAC to the Mountain West (not putting Skip in their class, obviously, but just offering examples). Plus, he had more BCS wins at ECU than he has conference wins here. It's not like he's facing the type competition he's never seen before. In fact, Skip seems to be more adept at winning ooc BCS games than conference ones. Maybe we should go independent.... Bottom line, to me, there really was no good reason to question the hire, IMO.

[SANJAY]

Agree that the original hire was a good one and probably as good, getting a guy with 2 conference titles and several good wins. The extension is ludicrous though.

Also, aren't we all, by definition, at the level of our incompetence?

[Bull94]

Hey! Another thread about how our head coach sucks/is over his head/just doesn't care.

And how this level is so much higher than where he was ..... break out the goggles. We have a problem, and I don't know what exactly it is, but it's not because Skip, himself, is all of a sudden in over his head.

Trip I don't know. I never was a big fan of the Skip hire in part because of his style which was IMO a not to win but stay close and not lose. The other part again just IMO is bringing in a C-USA coach I think they are used to certain level of play and certain level of player. Regardless of what ESPN or other media say I feel the BE has a very high level of play and players. It can be a tough transition and so far it doesn't seem Skip has transitioned well. Can Skip coach in the BE,SEC,Big-10,PAC-10 etc - maybe - I don't know but his performance here doesn't bode well.

Trepidation about his style I can understand if you have that ... the conference he's coming from, not so much. Brian Kelly came from the MAC to the BE... Urban Meyer went from the MAC to the Mountain West (not putting Skip in their class, obviously, but just offering examples). Plus, he had more BCS wins at ECU than he has conference wins here. It's not like he's facing the type competition he's never seen before. In fact, Skip seems to be more adept at winning ooc BCS games than conference ones. Maybe we should go independent.... Bottom line, to me, there really was no good reason to question the hire, IMO.

2 examples of coaches moving up and being successful is not proof that holtz hasn't hit his ceiling. it's also not proof that those conferences are anywhere near the level of the big east. steve kragthorpe was successful at tulsa in c-usa and bombed out at uofl.

chip kelly coached in division 2(as did brian kelly). does that mean the competition among coaches and players in division 2 is at the same level of the pac 12? of course not.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Bull94

[Triple B]

Hey! Another thread about how our head coach sucks/is over his head/just doesn't care.

And how this level is so much higher than where he was ..... break out the goggles. We have a problem, and I don't know what exactly it is, but it's not because Skip, himself, is all of a sudden in over his head.

Trip I don't know. I never was a big fan of the Skip hire in part because of his style which was IMO a not to win but stay close and not lose. The other part again just IMO is bringing in a C-USA coach I think they are used to certain level of play and certain level of player. Regardless of what ESPN or other media say I feel the BE has a very high level of play and players. It can be a tough transition and so far it doesn't seem Skip has transitioned well. Can Skip coach in the BE,SEC,Big-10,PAC-10 etc - maybe - I don't know but his performance here doesn't bode well.

Trepidation about his style I can understand if you have that ... the conference he's coming from, not so much. Brian Kelly came from the MAC to the BE... Urban Meyer went from the MAC to the Mountain West (not putting Skip in their class, obviously, but just offering examples). Plus, he had more BCS wins at ECU than he has conference wins here. It's not like he's facing the type competition he's never seen before. In fact, Skip seems to be more adept at winning ooc BCS games than conference ones. Maybe we should go independent.... Bottom line, to me, there really was no good reason to question the hire, IMO.

2 examples of coaches moving up and being successful is not proof that holtz hasn't hit his ceiling. it's also not proof that those conferences are anywhere near the level of the big east. steve kragthorpe was successful at tulsa in c-usa and bombed out at uofl.

chip kelly coached in division 2(as did brian kelly). does that mean the competition among coaches and players in division 2 is at the same level of the pac 12? of course not.

Pay attention, Shirley. We were discussing at the time of the hire, and there was no reason to question it THEN just because he came from a conference supposedly light years behind the mighty Big East ... especially since he had wins over similar type programs to the BE. Others had made similar jumps and been successful.

[Hem]

Shirley...lulz

[EduBull]

Always comes back to the peter

Indeed. And that's a more fundamental peter principle.

[dabull80]

Hey! Another thread about how our head coach sucks/is over his head/just doesn't care.

And how this level is so much higher than where he was ..... break out the goggles. We have a problem, and I don't know what exactly it is, but it's not because Skip, himself, is all of a sudden in over his head.

Trip I don't know. I never was a big fan of the Skip hire in part because of his style which was IMO a not to win but stay close and not lose. The other part again just IMO is bringing in a C-USA coach I think they are used to certain level of play and certain level of player. Regardless of what ESPN or other media say I feel the BE has a very high level of play and players. It can be a tough transition and so far it doesn't seem Skip has transitioned well. Can Skip coach in the BE,SEC,Big-10,PAC-10 etc - maybe - I don't know but his performance here doesn't bode well.

Trepidation about his style I can understand if you have that ... the conference he's coming from, not so much. Brian Kelly came from the MAC to the BE... Urban Meyer went from the MAC to the Mountain West (not putting Skip in their class, obviously, but just offering examples). Plus, he had more BCS wins at ECU than he has conference wins here. It's not like he's facing the type competition he's never seen before. In fact, Skip seems to be more adept at winning ooc BCS games than conference ones. Maybe we should go independent.... Bottom line, to me, there really was no good reason to question the hire, IMO.

I guess there was enough on his resume to hire him. I don't even know that I objected to the hire so much as was bitter about the way Leavitt got escorted out the door. I am one that felt and still do that Leavitt had not peaked so my bias may be peaking thru. I didn't say much when he was hired and even now I am still preaching we have six games left and to lets look after those games. It may be more of a style then resume hire I didn't like. Hes here now so I will just support him until he isn't.

[dabull80]

Agree that the original hire was a good one and probably as good, getting a guy with 2 conference titles and several good wins. The extension is ludicrous though.

Also, aren't we all, by definition, at the level of our incompetence?

We all scratch our heads on the extension. Probably knee jerk reaction.

[Bull94]

Hey! Another thread about how our head coach sucks/is over his head/just doesn't care.

And how this level is so much higher than where he was ..... break out the goggles. We have a problem, and I don't know what exactly it is, but it's not because Skip, himself, is all of a sudden in over his head.

Trip I don't know. I never was a big fan of the Skip hire in part because of his style which was IMO a not to win but stay close and not lose. The other part again just IMO is bringing in a C-USA coach I think they are used to certain level of play and certain level of player. Regardless of what ESPN or other media say I feel the BE has a very high level of play and players. It can be a tough transition and so far it doesn't seem Skip has transitioned well. Can Skip coach in the BE,SEC,Big-10,PAC-10 etc - maybe - I don't know but his performance here doesn't bode well.

Trepidation about his style I can understand if you have that ... the conference he's coming from, not so much. Brian Kelly came from the MAC to the BE... Urban Meyer went from the MAC to the Mountain West (not putting Skip in their class, obviously, but just offering examples). Plus, he had more BCS wins at ECU than he has conference wins here. It's not like he's facing the type competition he's never seen before. In fact, Skip seems to be more adept at winning ooc BCS games than conference ones. Maybe we should go independent.... Bottom line, to me, there really was no good reason to question the hire, IMO.

2 examples of coaches moving up and being successful is not proof that holtz hasn't hit his ceiling. it's also not proof that those conferences are anywhere near the level of the big east. steve kragthorpe was successful at tulsa in c-usa and bombed out at uofl.

chip kelly coached in division 2(as did brian kelly). does that mean the competition among coaches and players in division 2 is at the same level of the pac 12? of course not.

Pay attention, Shirley. We were discussing at the time of the hire, and there was no reason to question it THEN just because he came from a conference supposedly light years behind the mighty Big East ... especially since he had wins over similar type programs to the BE. Others had made similar jumps and been successful.

did I say anything about questioning the hire? no.

your logic is flawed to say the least. you use 2 coaches that had success at a lower level to somehow prove the level he coached at was on par with the big east and he could make the jump. that's like saying gus malzahn had success as a high school coach. he also had success as an OC in the SEC. therefore the SEC and hgih school levels must be similar in strength, we should hire a high school coach for OC. it's moronic.

everyone has their ceiling. saban couldn't hack it in the pros. neither could petrino. plenty of coaches have had success at a lower level and then bombed when they moved up.whether or not you want to believe it, the big east is light years ahead of c-usa. BTW going 9-5 in his best year against c-usa competition is not anything like what urban meyer and brian kelly did previously.

[Triple B]

Hey! Another thread about how our head coach sucks/is over his head/just doesn't care.

And how this level is so much higher than where he was ..... break out the goggles. We have a problem, and I don't know what exactly it is, but it's not because Skip, himself, is all of a sudden in over his head.

Trip I don't know. I never was a big fan of the Skip hire in part because of his style which was IMO a not to win but stay close and not lose. The other part again just IMO is bringing in a C-USA coach I think they are used to certain level of play and certain level of player. Regardless of what ESPN or other media say I feel the BE has a very high level of play and players. It can be a tough transition and so far it doesn't seem Skip has transitioned well. Can Skip coach in the BE,SEC,Big-10,PAC-10 etc - maybe - I don't know but his performance here doesn't bode well.

Trepidation about his style I can understand if you have that ... the conference he's coming from, not so much. Brian Kelly came from the MAC to the BE... Urban Meyer went from the MAC to the Mountain West (not putting Skip in their class, obviously, but just offering examples). Plus, he had more BCS wins at ECU than he has conference wins here. It's not like he's facing the type competition he's never seen before. In fact, Skip seems to be more adept at winning ooc BCS games than conference ones. Maybe we should go independent.... Bottom line, to me, there really was no good reason to question the hire, IMO.

2 examples of coaches moving up and being successful is not proof that holtz hasn't hit his ceiling. it's also not proof that those conferences are anywhere near the level of the big east. steve kragthorpe was successful at tulsa in c-usa and bombed out at uofl.

chip kelly coached in division 2(as did brian kelly). does that mean the competition among coaches and players in division 2 is at the same level of the pac 12? of course not.

Pay attention, Shirley. We were discussing at the time of the hire, and there was no reason to question it THEN just because he came from a conference supposedly light years behind the mighty Big East ... especially since he had wins over similar type programs to the BE. Others had made similar jumps and been successful.

did I say anything about questioning the hire? no.

If you're not questioning the hire, then shut the **** up! That's what that particular part of the conversation with 80 was about ...