EduBull

This is the key issue - when is it not worth it anymore? If you are a fan of the University, and view the football program as something that serves the needs of the larger University (in other words, actual USF fans), we're at that point where the return on investment is questionable, and it might be time to shift those resources elsewhere. If you view the University as existing to serve the needs of the football program, then sure, keep throwing money down the hole. But don't pretend you're a USF fan.

Should be clear which phase we're now in. College football played on a national stage potentially provides an important branding opportunity for a University, and it was worth pursing. But it didn't work out for us, and at this stage we're doing little but reinforcing our image as a 2nd rate university. It's time to direct those resources into other areas that might be of more benefit. Our own state legislature has clearly defined us as a 2nd tier institution behind UF and FSU - why not redirect our top-tier coach's salary to lobbyists or other forces necessary to raise our profile and funding in our own state? Or to raise the profile of another of our research programs to international prominence? These things would have direct benefits for all of us. Again, a nationally competitive football team was a worthy goal. But we didn't make it. Maybe one day we'll have a chance to try again, but not for the foreseeable future. So for now let's cut it back to a small program in a small conference and direct our energies elsewhere.

I agree with the other reply that OP likely heard Victor Crist's dream for a USF stadium. Somehow I think I heard the same three points over a decade ago. Raymond James stadium was supposed to be a venue that allowed us to participate in a major conference, with the idea that eventually the program would grow to stand on it's own with a moderately equivalent (i.e. major conference caliber) on-campus stadium. That ship has sailed (at least for the foreseeable future). No one in their right mind would approve or fund a major conference football stadium for USF at the present time. If we leave Raymond James now, it will be because we aren't big enough to afford it any more. Under those circumstances do you really think you'd be proud of the OCS we would build?

ACC seems committed to being a basketball conference. That makes us persona non grata. We have NOTHING to offer in that department. At least nothing the ACC would want.

Note that USF is not a "pre-eminent state research university." http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/04/22/3357874/fla-gov-to-sign-sweeping-education.html

My sources tell me there's a chance that, however grim the reality, we're not going anywhere anytime soon. We've taken a step backwards and that's just the cold, hard truth. So deal with it. We're going to have to rely on winning, and only winning, to earn respect.

The Mad Cow is supposed to be a pissing contest - proof that arguing on the Internet is like competing at the special Olympics. Even if you win you're still retarded. This forum ought to have a sense of unity that keeps arguments from degenerating into rancor.

The other thing is that UNC is still a basketball school, and I would imagine that's the context from which any conference change would be evaluated. From a Florida perspective that's hard to wrap your head around, but from a North Carolina perspective basketball is the big sport. I grew up there, and I can recall the teachers in elementary school putting the ACC basketball tournament on the classroom TV if games were during school hours. Would never have happened for football. You've got a lot of UNC alumns who are absolutely immersed in ACC basketball and have been their whole lives. Not saying that UNC won't leave the ACC, but am saying it's unlikely short of something earth-shattering.

I've read a few places that UNC turned down the B1G. If that is really true, than UNC is expecting to get into the SEC or they are really stupid. Or both. I think I'd rater go to the B1G, more realistic chance at competing and more prestigious and more class (well, excluding Rutgers). I doubt UNC is quite as anxious to bolt the ACC as some of you think. The in-state rivalries between UNC, NC State, Duke, and Wake are powerful reasons to stay. Many of the ACC schools have been playing together for A LONG time.

I was gone for a while and TheBullsPen.com definitely does not seem as active. Could be that people have simply shifted somewhat to Facebook and other social media. But our current standing as a 2nd or 3rd tier sports school no longer on the rise can't be helping.

Someone on the UC Santa Cruz Banana Slugs message board posted a link from a local sports writer in Missoula, Montana who overheard a guy in LAX talking on the phone to a friend who works in the athletic department of Spokane Falls Community College say that an administrative assistant at the University of Texas accidentally posted a Facebook status that said that Wake Forest was joining the PAC-12. It also said that the AD at Boise State let slip in an interview with the college paper there that with Wake's move to the PAC-12 Florida State and Virginia Tech would bolt for the Big 12, Dade Community College would join the ACC, and the SEC would expand to 32 teams. The SEC is expected to announce the addition of USF to its east Tampa Bay division very soon.

What news sources?

Poor Manti - his stock is falling. Chewed up and spit out by the Notre Dame marketing machine, and can't live up to the hype. How long before the E! True Hollywood Story?

You've got to consider those donations relative to what other universities (those USF sees as peers, or aspires to see as peers) spend on academics. Also, you have to consider what your goals are and what you want USF to be. Personally, I want to increase the value of all USF degrees, and see USF respected as a national research institution and public university. Athletics can potentially help with this, but at the current time I think USF Athletics has reached a plateau it won't transcend in the near future, regardless of funding. So better to put resources into other areas.

It would appear so. Sorry - the game had a late start time. I have to be in bed by 11pm on school nights. I'll ask my mom to let me stay the whole time at the next game.

I disagree with this - in most cases. Sure, an athletics program that rockets to national relevance has an almost immediate positive impact on the entire university, but that's a very rare event. Hasn't happened to us, and does not appear that it will. A few short years ago it looked as though it might, but it didn't. Recruiting and hiring international caliber researchers is something USF can and has done, and building a track record of peer-reviewed publications with University of South Florida as an affiliation is a GUARANTEED way to raise the academic profile of the University. It's something that cannot be undone by the whims of conference re-alignment, bad coaches, etc. Now, I fully realize that athletics is an important part of branding and potentially brings a lot of other benefits to the University, and we most certainly need it. But at the present time I think the University would be better served by donor attention to academics. Hopefully in a few years, once we've kicked the perception of USF academics up a notch, we'll be in a much better position to leverage athletics.

Honestly, I think Athletics spending has outpaced other parts of the University and we just have not seen (and are not going to see) the expected ROI. I wish it were not so. Some of this was beyond anything USF could have done, but some of it... I think it's time to focus on USF's academic programs for a while. Athletics is not going to put USF in the national spotlight in any significant way in the foreseeable future. Again, I wish this were not the case, but unfortunately it is. Solid, continuous investment in Academics will. Not as flashy, not as glamorous, but a much more reliable way of increasing the value of a USF degree for all of us. Also, if USF had better academic credentials we would be a much easier sell to a better athletic conference. So to me the wise donor will look someplace other than Athletics.

What the hell happened last night? First game I've been able to get to this entire season, Row A club seats, had to leave at the half. Looked like we were taking care of business. WTF?

Good to see J'Dinkalage Morgoone finally get some props. He was the moral compass driving our defense all season.

So we didn't learn much in the way of specifics today, other than Manti refuses to provide a coherent rationale for the most basic questions. He claims he didn't lie while admitting he did. He claims to have been deeply "committed" to Lennay Kekua yet for no particular reason never visited her in the hospital or anywhere else during the three years of this deep commitment. Clearly, we are not dealing with a rocket scientist here. I hope no one seriously believes the Notre Dame nonsense about inflexible academic standards for football players. This guy cannot possibly have an IQ over 85. His family didn't help matters. I'm leaning toward thinking that Manti is a gifted athlete with a below-normal intelligence who was churned up and spit out by Notre Dame and the sports media. Even if they wanted to maintain the facade of high admissions standards for athletes, they should have at least assigned some sort of guardian to keep a close eye on Manti, and kept a closer reign on his press interviews. They had to have known Manti would be an easy target.

In preparation for what will hopefully be a knee-slapping laugh riot when the Katie Couric / Manti Te'o mutual appreciation society meets tomorrow, here's an interesting look back at some of Notre Dame's previous media hoaxes. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-23/manti-te-o-joins-notre-dame-s-long-tradition-of-hooey.html

Whatever Tuiasososop did, it doesn't erase what Manti (and/or the people around him) did. There is no excuse for it. Nor for Notre Dame perpetuating the lie. Remember, the extent of Tuiasopopo's hoax was a couple of fake social media accounts and perhaps a voice accomplice. This was far from "elaborate." Doesn't justify Tuiasopopo's actions, but it's just not possible that no one around Manti who benefited from the story didn't know something was amiss. Tuiasopopo and his accomplice aren't the only bad guys. Regarding Manti's NFL prospects - certainly this doesn't kill him, and on some level it doesn't matter. But it does tarnish his image, and almost certainly makes him less valuable than he was a month ago. He's got baggage now, and that reduces his worth as a marquee player.

OK, so let's assume that he wasn't in on it. That he was truly duped by mean people on the Internet. Given the factual info we have concerning the lies he and Notre Dame continued to tell both explicitly and by omission, what does this say about him? What does it say about Notre Dame? Would you want your favorite NFL team to draft him?

THAT'S BECAUSE THIS IS A SOAP OPERA!!!! Short of USF getting back into a real conference, this is the best football story we've got until next fall. So to recap... following yesterday's Manti interview, it looks like CAA is going with the "mean people on the Internet, not Manti's fault" narrative. Fine. This means that Manti Te'o is in fact an emotionally impaired doofus lacking the basic moral sense not to make **** up in an incomprehensibly doomed attempt to avoid embarrassment. So who duped Notre Dame? Are we to believe that the rocket scientists in Notre Dame's athletic and marketing departments helped spin this story without so much as a phone call to Stanford? Or the hospital where poor Lennay lay dying? Or why no one had ever met her? Or without wondering why this deep and mature love of Manti's had never come to a game, or campus? Or why some local California media outlet had never bothered to even attempt an interview with anyone associated with the long-term love interest of a college football star? Are we to believe the University of Notre Dame is as emotionally impaired as Manti Te'o and was duped by mean people on the Internet? It would appear so. What a special program indeed.

So at best Manti is an emotionally immature and poorly adjusted individual who was taken advantage of by three groups of sleazeballs: Ronaiah Tuiasosopoo and associates, a cadre of reporters looking for a captivating sports story, and the U of Notre Dame attempting to create another mythical hero and rebuild their brand. The media can pass the buck - they are entertainers anyway who's only responsibility is to their advertisers. But this is damning to Notre Dame. They either knew the story was a hoax and flat out lied to the public, or they failed to protect a psychologically impaired student in their care. Interesting that Notre Dame sat on this and let the hoax continue until after the BCS championship, and came forward only came forward once the Deadspin article broke. Also, now that CAA is handling Manti instead of Notre Dame, suddenly the sports media has no trouble finding witnesses to corroborate the "Manti was duped by mean people on the Internet" narrative. Remember, all Deadspin had to do to break the story was simply try to locate a Lennay Kekua at any of the places she was reported to have been. This was no elaborate hoax - it was a couple of social media accounts. An actual con artist would have at least picked a name that would have surfaced in a call to Stanford or the supposed hospital - something that could have withstood the most meager of scrutiny.