My thoughts on BJ being a "Throw First" Qb

[Orlando Bull]

You da man, hb .... So, he only said it one time, then ... but it does make a little more sense seeing it in context.

Triple B... unfortunately, I don't have a link to the actual article, but, this is from last year after the Cincy Game, you'll have to take my word about it, it was a full year before the current discussion, I didn't make it up back then. Others mention it in other threads that I posted in around that time as well (yeah, I went back and looked through my posts)...

http://thebullspen.com/index.php?topic=64818.msg726143#msg726143

Since I missed all the fun, My thoughts on the game...

- Don't like reading about how BJ doesn't want to run, then watch him pull up and throw a bad pass on 3rd down and 9 when there wasn't anyone to stop him for less than 20 if he had run. It was a rookie mistake, but don't say things to the media that make you look like you're thinking too much.

- Daniels had a freshman game. I have been concerned about the short/intermediate passing game. We have lived by the big play since he has been in. Need to get more crisp on those shorter routes so that we can control the clock and let the defense rest a bit. BJ needs to learn to play from behind too. Sometimes, you have to throw into tight coverage and take a chance, getting sacked 1000 times or scrambling around like a wild man won't cut it, the receivers certainly weren't coming back to him though.

I haven't watched the DVR replay yet. I thought there were 3 chances we had to completely take over the game, and we didn't do it. The 3rd down that BJ didn't run for, the 4th down that Richardson dropped, and the 3rd and 11 that Collaros ran for a 75 yd TD. If we make 2 of those 3 plays, I think we easily would have won that one. I don't think Cincy is any better than us, they just executed when they had chances. Not at all coaching IMHO, sure, Ford could run more, but otherwise, the plays were called, the chances were there, the players just didn't execute. My one coaching complaint is that we have apparently completely abandoned the 4-3 defense. When we are down, the other team has their back-up QB in, THEY ARE GOING TO RUN. Put in some line backers to shed some blocks and make tackles.

and another....

http://thebullspen.com/index.php?topic=64710.10

I'm not sure that it helps my case here that I completely blew it on TP...apparently he's pretty good as a passer...he still runs too though. But, as of today, I'd be thrilled if BJ turned into Pryor, beyond thrilled actually.

I don't care if he prefers to pass or run, he needs to do what ever puts his TEAM in the best position to win.

Again, I would think nothing of it (and still think very little about it), if he wasn't making the 'I want to pass' comments. He will get better, but as someone else mentioned, the coaches need to stay on him to do what is right or he will turn into another Terrelle Pryor who doesn't want to run, and is not a pure pocket passer. Something has got to give, and it needs to the the coaching staff making sure that he understands that they aren't running him just for fun, they need him to run to be successful. And by successful, I mean winning games.

I have enjoyed watching BJ, and knew that he would have freshman moments, it's ok. I do wish that I wasn't reading the quotes in the paper though that make me question whether it was just a mistake, or if he saw the run there, but consciously decided that he doesn't like to run.

[Triple B]

You da man, hb .... So, he only said it one time, then ... but it does make a little more sense seeing it in context.

Triple B... unfortunately, I don't have a link to the actual article, but, this is from last year after the Cincy Game, you'll have to take my word about it, it was a full year before the current discussion, I didn't make it up back then. Others mention it in other threads that I posted in around that time as well (yeah, I went back and looked through my posts)...

http://thebullspen.com/index.php?topic=64818.msg726143#msg726143

Since I missed all the fun, My thoughts on the game...

- Don't like reading about how BJ doesn't want to run, then watch him pull up and throw a bad pass on 3rd down and 9 when there wasn't anyone to stop him for less than 20 if he had run. It was a rookie mistake, but don't say things to the media that make you look like you're thinking too much.

- Daniels had a freshman game. I have been concerned about the short/intermediate passing game. We have lived by the big play since he has been in. Need to get more crisp on those shorter routes so that we can control the clock and let the defense rest a bit. BJ needs to learn to play from behind too. Sometimes, you have to throw into tight coverage and take a chance, getting sacked 1000 times or scrambling around like a wild man won't cut it, the receivers certainly weren't coming back to him though.

I haven't watched the DVR replay yet. I thought there were 3 chances we had to completely take over the game, and we didn't do it. The 3rd down that BJ didn't run for, the 4th down that Richardson dropped, and the 3rd and 11 that Collaros ran for a 75 yd TD. If we make 2 of those 3 plays, I think we easily would have won that one. I don't think Cincy is any better than us, they just executed when they had chances. Not at all coaching IMHO, sure, Ford could run more, but otherwise, the plays were called, the chances were there, the players just didn't execute. My one coaching complaint is that we have apparently completely abandoned the 4-3 defense. When we are down, the other team has their back-up QB in, THEY ARE GOING TO RUN. Put in some line backers to shed some blocks and make tackles.

and another....

http://thebullspen.com/index.php?topic=64710.10

I'm not sure that it helps my case here that I completely blew it on TP...apparently he's pretty good as a passer...he still runs too though. But, as of today, I'd be thrilled if BJ turned into Pryor, beyond thrilled actually.

I don't care if he prefers to pass or run, he needs to do what ever puts his TEAM in the best position to win.

Again, I would think nothing of it (and still think very little about it), if he wasn't making the 'I want to pass' comments. He will get better, but as someone else mentioned, the coaches need to stay on him to do what is right or he will turn into another Terrelle Pryor who doesn't want to run, and is not a pure pocket passer. Something has got to give, and it needs to the the coaching staff making sure that he understands that they aren't running him just for fun, they need him to run to be successful. And by successful, I mean winning games.

I have enjoyed watching BJ, and knew that he would have freshman moments, it's ok. I do wish that I wasn't reading the quotes in the paper though that make me question whether it was just a mistake, or if he saw the run there, but consciously decided that he doesn't like to run.

Thing is, all those could be refering back to the one quote that hb posted but I really don't have a problem with the philosophy IF he hits those big plays when they're there. he didn't do that on Saturday due to his play and the play of others ...

[smazza]

absurd

a qb mustbe able to hit open receivers

you guys didnt express any concern while leavitt ran program into ground

your concern now seems phoney

holtz will simplyrecruit better qbs in off season

holtz isnt going anywhere

[hightechbull]

absurd

a qb mustbe able to hit open receivers

you guys didnt express any concern while leavitt ran program into ground

your concern now seems phoney

holtz will simplyrecruit better qbs in off season

holtz isnt going anywhere

It seems that a lot of people like the mobile QB thing that Leavitt had in place since Chad Barnhart graduated.  Sure Michael Vick is the model player for that type of QB, but did Vick win a national title when he QB'ed VT?  Nope.  His NFL career has consisted of some incredible games, and some mediocre games.  Has he won a Superbowl or at least taken a team to a conference championship game? Nope.

Not to knock the athletic abilities of Vick or any QB that plays that style, but that style of QB is just not sustainable over the long haul.

When UM ran a pro style offense in the 80's and early 90's, they were unstoppable.  Most of their QB's flamed out in the NFL, but they won 5 national titles with that style of offense.  You could say the same thing for FSU & maybe UF.

I think Holtz will recruit players that fit his system, and in the long run, we will dominate our conference and complete in the rankings.  Until then, we will have to be patient.

[Bull94]

absurd

a qb mustbe able to hit open receivers

you guys didnt express any concern while leavitt ran program into ground

your concern now seems phoney

holtz will simplyrecruit better qbs in off season

holtz isnt going anywhere

It seems that a lot of people like the mobile QB thing that Leavitt had in place since Chad Barnhart graduated.  Sure Michael Vick is the model player for that type of QB, but did Vick win a national title when he QB'ed VT?  Nope.  His NFL career has consisted of some incredible games, and some mediocre games.  Has he won a Superbowl or at least taken a team to a conference championship game? Nope.

Not to knock the athletic abilities of Vick or any QB that plays that style, but that style of QB is just not sustainable over the long haul.

When UM ran a pro style offense in the 80's and early 90's, they were unstoppable.  Most of their QB's flamed out in the NFL, but they won 5 national titles with that style of offense.  You could say the same thing for FSU & maybe UF.

I think Holtz will recruit players that fit his system, and in the long run, we will dominate our conference and complete in the rankings.  Until then, we will have to be patient.

vick played in a nfc conference championship game 2004. he also played in a college national championship game as a redshirt freshman.

I agree though. i like the prostyle pass first QB and many of miamia's went on the have success in the pros. Jim Kelly, Bernie kosar, Vinny Testaverde

[Bulls On Parade]

absurd

a qb mustbe able to hit open receivers

you guys didnt express any concern while leavitt ran program into ground

your concern now seems phoney

holtz will simplyrecruit better qbs in off season

holtz isnt going anywhere

Smazza is making more sense than most of the people on this board, hell must have frozen over.

Face it BJ at this point and time blows really bad he couldn't hit a barn 10 yards infront of him.

When we get a QB hopefully Gunsby will be that guy that can move this offense more than 6 plays you will see a much improved offense and running game  and a defense that is fresher late in the game.

[Orlando Bull]

absurd

a qb mustbe able to hit open receivers

you guys didnt express any concern while leavitt ran program into ground

your concern now seems phoney

holtz will simplyrecruit better qbs in off season

holtz isnt going anywhere

It seems that a lot of people like the mobile QB thing that Leavitt had in place since Chad Barnhart graduated.  Sure Michael Vick is the model player for that type of QB, but did Vick win a national title when he QB'ed VT?  Nope.  His NFL career has consisted of some incredible games, and some mediocre games.  Has he won a Superbowl or at least taken a team to a conference championship game? Nope.

Not to knock the athletic abilities of Vick or any QB that plays that style, but that style of QB is just not sustainable over the long haul.

When UM ran a pro style offense in the 80's and early 90's, they were unstoppable.  Most of their QB's flamed out in the NFL, but they won 5 national titles with that style of offense.  You could say the same thing for FSU & maybe UF.

I think Holtz will recruit players that fit his system, and in the long run, we will dominate our conference and complete in the rankings.  Until then, we will have to be patient.

I see your Michael Vick and raise you Brett Favre.

He's one of the best pro-style QBs ever, and he never won a national championship. He's been stellar in some games in the NFL and horrible in others. See, I can pick one player and pretend like it's a great argument too...

UF won 2 championships with a mobile QB (leak wasnt super mobile, but somewhat, and Tebow got a bit of time that year). Texas played for it last year with McCoy. Vince Young I think won one over a "pro-style" QB.

You can win with either type of QB. Your argument has many many flaws, and while I pull for our guys in the NFL, their success at that level does not make USF any better.

I'm interested in smazza's statement that Leavitt "ran the program into the ground". How does one do this? Here's a definition...

1. to cause something to become less successful

So, who exactly had USF at such a high level before Leavitt came in and ran the program into the ground? Did he destroy our program? Well, no, he actually built it, whatever was left was 1000% more than when he got here.

[Triple B]

I'm interested in smazza's statement that Leavitt "ran the program into the ground". How does one do this? Here's a definition...

1. to cause something to become less successful

So, who exactly had USF at such a high level before Leavitt came in and ran the program into the ground? Did he destroy our program? Well, no, he actually built it, whatever was left was 1000% more than when he got here.

LOL....I was going to make a similar observation but then figured: "Why bother ... just consider the source". 

[DELdaBull]

BJ is actually in the process of learning how to be a qb.  The previous regime didn't think that was necessary.  MG8 showed marginal improvement over 3 years.  Let's see what BJ looks like by year end.  I have a feeling like the light will turn on.

[DELdaBull]

Right now BJ sucks though