Fenelly: "USF Dropping The Ball If It Drops UCF"

[Joe]

Trip, your fans don't even travel to RayJay.  I think the lack of ticket sales for away games is a problem that needs to be solved at home first.

You're exactly right, we should ..... and until then, why should we give UCF almost another home game and get nothing out of it that we couldn't get by scheduling FAMU every other year?

My understanding last year is that we gave FAMU a % of the gate to get them to come to USF. Apparently they want more to come in 2008.

[Bull Dozer]

...but ignoring you benefits only OUR team,

Can you clarify this a bit?? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't understand how USF benefits from NOT playing the game.

We have the edge right now, due to a stroke of luck we have the BCS tag and we have access (regardless of likelihood) to a national championship and/or a BCS bid UCF doesn't. This means we have no need to play this game to set up apart. It is now on the shoulders of UCF to prove to recruits that they are on par with us and the only way they can do that is to play. We benefit by completely taking away any hope they have of "proving" they are on our level.

So basically they give us nothing, we give them hope.

You didn't really answer the question and contradict yourself.

I agree that UCF is not on USF's level because USF is in a BCS conference.  How does playing (or beating) us change that?  How does scheduling the games for the next 20 years give them the ability to prove they are on our level?  How does the series give them hope?

Well, it doesn't.  So by not playing the game, you are not taking anything away from UCF.

How did I contradict myself? I believe that the only way that UCF will be able to compete with recruits will be to beat us on the field, just because you think that won't happen does not mean I'm contradicting a thing. I think they are the team that is closest to us in battling for recruits and by not giving them assistence in that arena is a benefit to us. Again, just because you don't agree doesn't mean that I'm contradicting myself. Somehow I think most people that are dying for this "rivalry" are really just expecting that we are so far ahead of them that it will just be a game that we'll win and can rub it in their face. Unfortunately I think we are closer than most others do and have a real chance of blowing some of these games, if that happens I hope you all come back here talking up the benefits that a loss to them gave us. I can guarantee you if that happens they'll be trying to use it every way possible to give them leverage.

This is your problem ( the bolded statement), most outsiders (ie not fans of either side) view these programs on the same level, if not UCF slightly ahead due to the attention O'Leary got them this offseason.  People really need to wake up and realize in everyones eyes that dont wear green and gold goggles we're pretty much equal.  

[puc86]

So we are going to distance ourselves from them by trying to create a rivalry with them?

...but ignoring you benefits only OUR team,

Can you clarify this a bit?? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't understand how USF benefits from NOT playing the game.

We have the edge right now, due to a stroke of luck we have the BCS tag and we have access (regardless of likelihood) to a national championship and/or a BCS bid UCF doesn't. This means we have no need to play this game to set up apart. It is now on the shoulders of UCF to prove to recruits that they are on par with us and the only way they can do that is to play. We benefit by completely taking away any hope they have of "proving" they are on our level.

So basically they give us nothing, we give them hope.

You didn't really answer the question and contradict yourself.

I agree that UCF is not on USF's level because USF is in a BCS conference.  How does playing (or beating) us change that?  How does scheduling the games for the next 20 years give them the ability to prove they are on our level?  How does the series give them hope?

Well, it doesn't.  So by not playing the game, you are not taking anything away from UCF.

How did I contradict myself? I believe that the only way that UCF will be able to compete with recruits will be to beat us on the field, just because you think that won't happen does not mean I'm contradicting a thing. I think they are the team that is closest to us in battling for recruits and by not giving them assistence in that arena is a benefit to us. Again, just because you don't agree doesn't mean that I'm contradicting myself. Somehow I think most people that are dying for this "rivalry" are really just expecting that we are so far ahead of them that it will just be a game that we'll win and can rub it in their face. Unfortunately I think we are closer than most others do and have a real chance of blowing some of these games, if that happens I hope you all come back here talking up the benefits that a loss to them gave us. I can guarantee you if that happens they'll be trying to use it every way possible to give them leverage.

This is your problem ( the bolded statement), most outsiders (ie not fans of either side) view these programs on the same level, if not UCF slightly ahead due to the attention O'Leary got them this offseason.  People really need to wake up and realize in everyones eyes that dont wear green and gold goggles we're pretty much equal.  

[BULLheaded]

...but ignoring you benefits only OUR team,

Can you clarify this a bit?? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't understand how USF benefits from NOT playing the game.

We have the edge right now, due to a stroke of luck we have the BCS tag and we have access (regardless of likelihood) to a national championship and/or a BCS bid UCF doesn't. This means we have no need to play this game to set up apart. It is now on the shoulders of UCF to prove to recruits that they are on par with us and the only way they can do that is to play. We benefit by completely taking away any hope they have of "proving" they are on our level.

So basically they give us nothing, we give them hope.

You didn't really answer the question and contradict yourself.

I agree that UCF is not on USF's level because USF is in a BCS conference.  How does playing (or beating) us change that?  How does scheduling the games for the next 20 years give them the ability to prove they are on our level?  How does the series give them hope?

Well, it doesn't.  So by not playing the game, you are not taking anything away from UCF.

How did I contradict myself? I believe that the only way that UCF will be able to compete with recruits will be to beat us on the field, just because you think that won't happen does not mean I'm contradicting a thing. I think they are the team that is closest to us in battling for recruits and by not giving them assistence in that arena is a benefit to us. Again, just because you don't agree doesn't mean that I'm contradicting myself. Somehow I think most people that are dying for this "rivalry" are really just expecting that we are so far ahead of them that it will just be a game that we'll win and can rub it in their face. Unfortunately I think we are closer than most others do and have a real chance of blowing some of these games, if that happens I hope you all come back here talking up the benefits that a loss to them gave us. I can guarantee you if that happens they'll be trying to use it every way possible to give them leverage.

This is your problem ( the bolded statement), most outsiders (ie not fans of either side) view these programs on the same level, if not UCF slightly ahead due to the attention O'Leary got them this offseason.  People really need to wake up and realize in everyones eyes that dont wear green and gold goggles we're pretty much equal.  

First thing is I'm not sure what this has to do with building a rivalry. Second, this is exactly why I think it is important not to give them anything to promote themselves over us with. Right now they have nothing, if they beat us on the field they have something. Lose more then once and we give them a trend. I simply don't see that this game is worth playing, nobody cares about the team they just want a rivalry. I keep hearing all these reasons it's natural yet I hear no passion at all about the actual team.

[Bull Dozer]

My point is this whole "were so far ahead of them" attitude on this board is puzzling.  We truthfully arent that far ahead at all and after the OCS they will have something on us because they have a stadium thats actually theirs add that in with the media slobbing O'Leary and they will have things over us.  I think this game is key in making sure we stay on the same level recruiting wise.  

[DawgPound]

Trip, your fans don't even travel to RayJay.  I think the lack of ticket sales for away games is a problem that needs to be solved at home first.

You're exactly right, we should ..... and until then, why should we give UCF almost another home game and get nothing out of it that we couldn't get by scheduling FAMU every other year?

If FAMU doesn't ask for that gate percentage, why not schedule both in opposite years?  UCF and USF are still working on attendence and having 40k plus games at each stadium only helps both schools out.  I see nothing wrong in some mutual assistance.  If both our teams improve, it could be a marketable game.  Hell, the first round was picked up by FSN Florida, which is regional.  This year, it was picked up by CSTV, which is national.

If FAMU requires that percentage of revenue after a certain attendence amount, they really aren't worth bringing in.

[Guest]

How did I contradict myself? I believe that the only way that UCF will be able to compete with recruits will be to beat us on the field, just because you think that won't happen does not mean I'm contradicting a thing. I think they are the team that is closest to us in battling for recruits and by not giving them assistence in that arena is a benefit to us. Again, just because you don't agree doesn't mean that I'm contradicting myself. Somehow I think most people that are dying for this "rivalry" are really just expecting that we are so far ahead of them that it will just be a game that we'll win and can rub it in their face. Unfortunately I think we are closer than most others do and have a real chance of blowing some of these games, if that happens I hope you all come back here talking up the benefits that a loss to them gave us. I can guarantee you if that happens they'll be trying to use it every way possible to give them leverage.

You contradict yourself by saying:

1) USF is ahead only because we are in a BCS conference.

2) Playing them somehow gives the perception we are equal.

But the playing the game does not change the reason we are ahead, so no matter if USF goes 1-41 against UCF, as long as USF is in the BCS and UCF is not, we will be ahead.

This game does not have any effect on recruits.*

Let me say that again.

This game does not have any effect on recruits.*

UCF to recruit: We have an on-campus stadium... indoor practice facility... play in Conference USA against Tulsa, Rice, and UTEP... oh, and we can beat USF.

USF to recruit: We play in a first class NFL stadium... have a new athletic training facility... play in the Big East Conference against Louisville, West Virginia, and Pittsburgh... oh, and with your help we could play for a national championship.

(*IMHO)

---

I am not saying that we should, above all else, see UCF as a rivalry... I am just saying that I have not heard any real reason why NOT other than because CJL does not want it.  I have never really understood why, and USF has never really explained why to my satisfaction.

The reasons FOR a annual game sufficiently outweigh the reasons AGAINST, in my opinion.

[BULLheaded]

My point is this whole "were so far ahead of them" attitude on this board is puzzling.  We truthfully arent that far ahead at all and after the OCS they will have something on us because they have a stadium thats actually theirs add that in with the media slobbing O'Leary and they will have things over us.  I think this game is key in making sure we stay on the same level recruiting wise.  

If that is what your hearing then you aren't listening. I think we are NOT so far ahead of them that this game is an automatic win. Right now I think we are two teams playing very poorly and both of us has a shot to win. However, what we do have is an edge with the BCS affiliation and I think that is a huge trump card over any small OCS they may build. I think the key for THEM is to prove they are better than us on the field. I think the key for us is to ignore them, take advantage of our recruiting edge and concentrate on becoming a consistent winner in the Big East.

[Triple B]

You contradict yourself by saying:

1) USF is ahead only because we are in a BCS conference.

2) Playing them somehow gives the perception we are equal.

But the playing the game does not change the reason we are ahead, so no matter if USF goes 1-41 against UCF, as long as USF is in the BCS and UCF is not, we will be ahead.

This game does not have any effect on recruits.*

Let me say that again.

This game does not have any effect on recruits.*

UCF to recruit: We have an on-campus stadium... indoor practice facility... play in Conference USA against Tulsa, Rice, and UTEP... oh, and we can beat USF.

USF to recruit: We play in a first class NFL stadium... have a new athletic training facility... play in the Big East Conference against Louisville, West Virginia, and Pittsburgh... oh, and with your help we could play for a national championship.

(*IMHO)

---

I am not saying that we should, above all else, see UCF as a rivalry... I am just saying that I have not heard any real reason why NOT other than because CJL does not want it.  I have never really understood why, and USF has never really explained why to my satisfaction.

The reasons FOR a annual game sufficiently outweigh the reasons AGAINST, in my opinion.

Pretty compelling arguments, Jim, but I've got a question. Do you think if they beat us several times in a row or 2 out of the next 3 years, would that have any weight in somebody's decision to invite them to a BCS conf down the road? ............ and does them getting into a BCS conf matter to you?

[Guest]

You contradict yourself by saying:

1) USF is ahead only because we are in a BCS conference.

2) Playing them somehow gives the perception we are equal.

But the playing the game does not change the reason we are ahead, so no matter if USF goes 1-41 against UCF, as long as USF is in the BCS and UCF is not, we will be ahead.

This game does not have any effect on recruits.*

Let me say that again.

This game does not have any effect on recruits.*

UCF to recruit: We have an on-campus stadium... indoor practice facility... play in Conference USA against Tulsa, Rice, and UTEP... oh, and we can beat USF.

USF to recruit: We play in a first class NFL stadium... have a new athletic training facility... play in the Big East Conference against Louisville, West Virginia, and Pittsburgh... oh, and with your help we could play for a national championship.

(*IMHO)

---

I am not saying that we should, above all else, see UCF as a rivalry... I am just saying that I have not heard any real reason why NOT other than because CJL does not want it.  I have never really understood why, and USF has never really explained why to my satisfaction.

The reasons FOR a annual game sufficiently outweigh the reasons AGAINST, in my opinion.

Pretty compelling arguments, Jim, but I've got a question. Do you think if they beat us several times in a row or 2 out of the next 3 years, would that have any weight in somebody's decision to invite them to a BCS conf down the road? ............ and does them getting into a BCS conf matter to you?

Actually, no I don't think beating USF would have any weight unless they beat USF in the same season that USF makes it to a BCS bowl... and even then there are other issues to consider.  USF was invited to the Big East over UCF for reasons that have little to do with football: academic standing, level of play of our other sports (USF won more C-USA titles than any other school while we were there), and the size of our TV market, among others.

As for them getting into a BCS conf, no that doesn't matter either.  To say "we don't want to play UCF because they might, someday, get into a BCS conference" doesn't quite hold water to me.  Yes, if that happens our edge with them will be erased... but that is the case whether or not we play them.  The conversation would then read:

UCF to recruit: We have an on-campus stadium... indoor practice facility... were just invited to a BCS Conference... oh, and with your help we could play for a national championship.

USF to recruit: We play in a first class NFL stadium... have an outstanding athletic training facility... play in the Big East Conference against Louisville, West Virginia, and Pittsburgh... oh, and with your help we could play for a national championship.

At that point, the overall wins and losses are still more important than whether or not USF beats UCF or vice versa.

JMHO (Oh, and if they get a BCS invite, I think it will likely be a split Big East Football conference, at which point we would play them anyway. Sometime around 2015.)