BULLheaded

It is an American right to be able to question the leaders of our country, so yeah, I don't have to support every war.  Thanks for reminding me.  Loyalty to this country does not mean BLIND loyalty. Let me get this straight...you are comparing being a fan of a college athletic team with caring for members of a Church or family?  Are you serious?  I'm well versed in what loyalty means, but again, it's just a sports team, it is not life or death. It is not just Harvard.  There are plenty of schools that do not rely on Football and Basketball as their main success as a University.  Believe it or not, a lot of students choose where to go based on, what's that thing you do in college, oh yeah, academics. Look, I said it makes the school more popular to people that like sports, but I don't think that directly translates into becoming a better academic institution.  I think we have a great reputation as a medical research center and are opening a "world-class alzheimer's center" according to the Oracle.   I think a company hiring me would see a football championship and recognize USF, but may or may not recognize that the school has a great engineering record unless they have met great USF engineers before.  Seems to me most of the money donated from athletics success would go to athletics, but even if this connection benefits academics down the road, hopefully I'll have enough experience with my job to not need athletics to be the beacon of recognition for the academic institution I attended. Btw, I will not wear Gator gear because I went there for a year; I hate them.  But by your logic I should remain loyal to their team because they taught me for a year.  That brings me back to my point, however.  I don't think some people wearing shirts on campus has any effect on donations.  You can not force people to like this school or to wear what YOU want them to wear.  Leave them alone.  Assuming I wore my FSU gear on campus, if some jerk told me I should not wear it I'd tell them to mind their own business.  Most likely, however, the person would know it's just about sports and not academics. USF gaining national recognition for anything would be nice to brag about, but it's not exactly going to change my life.  And in particular, a sports team winning something only gives you bragging rights about sports topics.  Is UF going to become a better academic place now?  Do you really believe that?  Is Miami a lot better for winning those championships?  Georgia Tech is a great engineering school, but I don't think it would get any better if one of their teams won a championship in a sport.  Everyone knows Duke sucks at football, but that doesn't seem to effect their basketball success now does it?  Likewise they are also great at academics.  One area does is not needed for success in another. Even if you completely disagree with me, as you seem to do, I still don't think people should be up in arms that some girl wears UF shirts.  Get over it, seriously. :

Maybe just because you are a buckey but I have to disagree completely. [highlight]The school you attend does have to be your die hard favorite team. [/highlight]You can be fans of other teams but there will not be another "your" school. Academics seem to hate to admit this but there is a direct connection between the respect you get for that piece of paper hanging in your office and the success/recognition of your athletic programs. If you want to make that piece of paper more valuable than you do everything in your power to promote respect of your school and your support of athletics is a big part of that. Putting any other school above your own not only is disrespectful to the school but it also indirectly helps to devalue that piece of paper. Who made these rules?  Being a fan is NOT a sport.  Being a fan is NOT based on legal stipulations.  I also don't think USF winning the Big East will make my Electrical Engineering degree look any better to a company that might want to hire me.  Maybe if I was getting my degree in athletics?  I understand that you guys want all the students to like USF sports.  I do, too.  But it will change with time and winning, not being an a-hole to everyone that grew up supporting another team first.  We need all the fans we can get.  If we have an amazing season, starting by beating Auburn, then perhaps we pick up all the bandwagon fans.  I don't think Miami sold out every game last year.  It's the same at every school.  If we win consistently people will figure it out.  I try to talk to fellow USF students at my job and they have no clue what is going on with USF, but they sure know what is going on with respect to the national media attention and their other FL schools.  They laugh at the bowl games we go to.  It's just casual fans and bandwagons fans, that's how they are.  Deal with it.  Not everyone is like you.  Try to promote, be positive, tell people about Mike Ford (I play football on campus every week and hardly anyone I play with knows about him), but there is no reason to attack people that are not like you. Let people support who they want.  Being a fan is not a job for most people. your right, I forgot we live in a day and age that loyalty is a thing long forgotten Yeah, because being loyal to a sports team is the real test of a person's character.  Let me repeat:  being a fan is not a job.  Being a fan should be fun and enjoyed however you want.  What you are is way too serious about the situation.  Also, there isn't much loyalty in professional sports because, like most people, athletes go where they can make the most money.  Hard to root for individual players if you only like a certain team.  Shows loyalty to stick with any team now. Besides that, being staying with the team YOU GREW UP ROOTING FOR shows loyalty and shows you are not a bandwagon fan and that you take being a fan seriously, even if it's too serious like most of you on this topic. Maybe if you took the time to actually read my posts would would have noticed I made a distinction between your College team and just any old athletic team (actually that was the entire point to my post). There is much more than just being a fan that goes into supporting your school's football team, re-read my post for the details that I don't feel like retyping. Again, I am not saying you should quit being a fan of the other schools, just that supporting your own school is more important as it has other ramifications and yes there is a loyalty factor that isn't there with simply a team that you are a fan of. and no, sticking with your previous teams over your own school does not show loyalty. You have loyalty to your country, your family, your school etc... you don't have loyalty to a community that you are just an outside wannabe. It may show that you are a die hard fan but sorry I put loyalty a step above fandom. But as I said, this is a day and age of no loyalties aside from "ME ME ME" I read the post I responded to.  I separate athletics from scholastics.  I don't think Harvard's reputation as an academic institution is called into question  if they don't win the Ivy League Championship in any particular sport.  I don't think Stanford, a similar quality academic institution, cares if they lose the Pac-10 every year except for how much money they could have gotten.  I think it is natural to go for the team of the school you went to because there is a connection to it and the players do represent the school.  I think it is much easier for a school to get a bad reputation from athletics than a good one.  I don't think more highly of FSU's academics or UF's academics from each of their 2 championships, but Miami has a reputation of a thug school because of their football team.  I don't know how much people even take that into account either.  I will repeat what I typed:  I don't think USF winning the big east would improve my Electrical Engineering degree.  More money generated from athletics could improve the popularity of the school as far as people wanting to come here, but the biggest thing is the money generated which most likely would just go back into athletics to support the non-money-making programs and a new stadium and basketball practice facility.  Oh, and that Dining Hall.  I do not think a company will hire me based on the fact my team won the Big East, either.  I think they'll be more interested in what I can do for them, you know, engineering-wise. Furthermore, just because I go to an institution does not mean I have to support every facet of it.  By your logic I should be a Gator sports fan just because I went there a year.  Maybe they should be my new 3rd team?  I disagree, because I went there for academic reasons, not sports reasons.  You said people must support their school's athletics and I completely disagree.  I think you are too serious about sports.  It is cool to brag about the school you went to winning something big nationally, but I don't think it improves the reason you go to a University:  TO LEARN. Just because you live in the US doesn't mean you have to support our country in various wars or international competitions either. Just because you belong to a particular church doesn't mean you have to support their members during hardships. Just becuase you belong to a family doesn't mean you have to support them either. It's called loyalty...why do I bother trying to explain it to people who just don't get it. Go on, wear your gator gear or whatever else you want, do it on campus and by all means write an article justifying it. Oh and yeah, using Harvard for comparison purposes is just like apples and oranges. Frankly I completely disagree with you. We are 50 years old and for the most part nobody in this country knows anything about us. We will never have the tradition or the respect as Harvard (very few will) so getting our name out there anyway we can and in a positive light does add value to your electrical engineering degree. In addition, the better our teams do the more loyal students actually become, the more loyal they become the more they will be willing to donate as they become successful and the more they donate (to athletics and academics) the better facilities and better professors the school can bring in...the result? Yes, a better academic institution with more national recognition that not only benefits you but benefits all current and future USF students and alumni. So, yes I think supporting another institution over our own is harmful, but hey, you got your degree and by the sound of things probably also have a good career going with it so don't see the benefit to yourself and as mentioned loyalties these days is really all about yourself and screw the rest right?

Maybe just because you are a buckey but I have to disagree completely. [highlight]The school you attend does have to be your die hard favorite team. [/highlight]You can be fans of other teams but there will not be another "your" school. Academics seem to hate to admit this but there is a direct connection between the respect you get for that piece of paper hanging in your office and the success/recognition of your athletic programs. If you want to make that piece of paper more valuable than you do everything in your power to promote respect of your school and your support of athletics is a big part of that. Putting any other school above your own not only is disrespectful to the school but it also indirectly helps to devalue that piece of paper. Who made these rules?  Being a fan is NOT a sport.  Being a fan is NOT based on legal stipulations.  I also don't think USF winning the Big East will make my Electrical Engineering degree look any better to a company that might want to hire me.  Maybe if I was getting my degree in athletics?  I understand that you guys want all the students to like USF sports.  I do, too.  But it will change with time and winning, not being an a-hole to everyone that grew up supporting another team first.  We need all the fans we can get.  If we have an amazing season, starting by beating Auburn, then perhaps we pick up all the bandwagon fans.  I don't think Miami sold out every game last year.  It's the same at every school.  If we win consistently people will figure it out.  I try to talk to fellow USF students at my job and they have no clue what is going on with USF, but they sure know what is going on with respect to the national media attention and their other FL schools.  They laugh at the bowl games we go to.  It's just casual fans and bandwagons fans, that's how they are.  Deal with it.  Not everyone is like you.  Try to promote, be positive, tell people about Mike Ford (I play football on campus every week and hardly anyone I play with knows about him), but there is no reason to attack people that are not like you. Let people support who they want.  Being a fan is not a job for most people. your right, I forgot we live in a day and age that loyalty is a thing long forgotten Yeah, because being loyal to a sports team is the real test of a person's character.  Let me repeat:  being a fan is not a job.  Being a fan should be fun and enjoyed however you want.  What you are is way too serious about the situation.  Also, there isn't much loyalty in professional sports because, like most people, athletes go where they can make the most money.  Hard to root for individual players if you only like a certain team.  Shows loyalty to stick with any team now. Besides that, being staying with the team YOU GREW UP ROOTING FOR shows loyalty and shows you are not a bandwagon fan and that you take being a fan seriously, even if it's too serious like most of you on this topic. Maybe if you took the time to actually read my posts would would have noticed I made a distinction between your College team and just any old athletic team (actually that was the entire point to my post). There is much more than just being a fan that goes into supporting your school's football team, re-read my post for the details that I don't feel like retyping. Again, I am not saying you should quit being a fan of the other schools, just that supporting your own school is more important as it has other ramifications and yes there is a loyalty factor that isn't there with simply a team that you are a fan of. and no, sticking with your previous teams over your own school does not show loyalty. You have loyalty to your country, your family, your school etc... you don't have loyalty to a community that you are just an outside wannabe. It may show that you are a die hard fan but sorry I put loyalty a step above fandom. But as I said, this is a day and age of no loyalties aside from "ME ME ME"

Maybe just because you are a buckey but I have to disagree completely. [highlight]The school you attend does have to be your die hard favorite team. [/highlight]You can be fans of other teams but there will not be another "your" school. Academics seem to hate to admit this but there is a direct connection between the respect you get for that piece of paper hanging in your office and the success/recognition of your athletic programs. If you want to make that piece of paper more valuable than you do everything in your power to promote respect of your school and your support of athletics is a big part of that. Putting any other school above your own not only is disrespectful to the school but it also indirectly helps to devalue that piece of paper. Who made these rules?  Being a fan is NOT a sport.  Being a fan is NOT based on legal stipulations.  I also don't think USF winning the Big East will make my Electrical Engineering degree look any better to a company that might want to hire me.  Maybe if I was getting my degree in athletics?  I understand that you guys want all the students to like USF sports.  I do, too.  But it will change with time and winning, not being an a-hole to everyone that grew up supporting another team first.  We need all the fans we can get.  If we have an amazing season, starting by beating Auburn, then perhaps we pick up all the bandwagon fans.  I don't think Miami sold out every game last year.  It's the same at every school.  If we win consistently people will figure it out.  I try to talk to fellow USF students at my job and they have no clue what is going on with USF, but they sure know what is going on with respect to the national media attention and their other FL schools.  They laugh at the bowl games we go to.  It's just casual fans and bandwagons fans, that's how they are.  Deal with it.  Not everyone is like you.  Try to promote, be positive, tell people about Mike Ford (I play football on campus every week and hardly anyone I play with knows about him), but there is no reason to attack people that are not like you. Let people support who they want.  Being a fan is not a job for most people. your right, I forgot we live in a day and age that loyalty is a thing long forgotten

Maybe just because you are a buckey but I have to disagree completely. The school you attend does have to be your die hard favorite team. You can be fans of other teams but there will not be another "your" school. Academics seem to hate to admit this but there is a direct connection between the respect you get for that piece of paper hanging in your office and the success/recognition of your athletic programs. If you want to make that piece of paper more valuable than you do everything in your power to promote respect of your school and your support of athletics is a big part of that. Putting any other school above your own not only is disrespectful to the school but it also indirectly helps to devalue that piece of paper. Well my wolverine friend... U have an opinion and i respect it, but i do disgaree... I dont feel like making a long post about this because i feel i will just get attacked... But, guys we need to realize the only fact about being a fan is that there are no rules or guidlines to who u are supposed to like, no matter what any tells u.. I went to a large portion of usf bball games(stormed the court against nd), and some football games... But even if i get a degree from usf, the south florida bulls football team will never even come close to my heart as the buckeyes.. and thats just something i cant fight... There is being a "fan" and then there is being a student/alumn. Your right, being a fan has no rules but supporting your school is more than just being a fan of your school. Just like you have friends and you have family, you can pick your freinds but your family is your family and there would be something wrong if you don't put family first. But then you did choose the buckeys.... ÂÂ

Maybe just because you are a buckey but I have to disagree completely. The school you attend does have to be your die hard favorite team. You can be fans of other teams but there will not be another "your" school. Academics seem to hate to admit this but there is a direct connection between the respect you get for that piece of paper hanging in your office and the success/recognition of your athletic programs. If you want to make that piece of paper more valuable than you do everything in your power to promote respect of your school and your support of athletics is a big part of that. Putting any other school above your own not only is disrespectful to the school but it also indirectly helps to devalue that piece of paper.

I have to agree with those that have a problem with this article. To clear up a few things that seem to be getting mixed up in the debate few seem to be complaining about having a "second" team to root for, I myself was born and raised a wolverine and I am still a huge wolverine fan. To the parents here mentioning the raising of kids as a Bull there is no doubt this will be the case but at the same time if that child goes to another school a mutual appreciation should take place. My father who lives in tampa has become a big fan of the Bulls and will join me for a game when he can dressed in bulls gear and when I visit he is just as likely to have a USF shirt on as he is a Michigan shirt. I of course will wear Michigan shirts when I go to his place to root his team on as well, this is just the way things are. Now that being said there are two things that I especially take offense to in this article. First, there is a HUGE difference between wearing another team's shirt on campus or off campus, there is absolutely no way a true fan of a school would have the nerve to wear another school's shirt on campus...sorry but that is being a traitor. Second, not only is this so called fan wearing an opposing schools clothes on campus but she feels the need write this long and rediculous article in our own school paper trying to convince other students that it's ok. Great, not bad enough that she does this but she has to try and promote this to everyone else as ok? Sorry NOT ok. And as far as the comparison of her vs the local papers...I also see a big distiction between the school paper and a student author and a city paper that the only connection is proximaty. I wish the local papers had more support but I certainly DEMAND they my own **** school paper would support our school.

Has anyone mentioned who will get the QB coach duties? Since Smith was both OC and QB coach that actually leaves both postitions to fill but I haven't heard anyone talking about that.

I guess the way I see it is that the recruiting could set us back maybe a couple years but the wrong coach can be a disaster and set us back for a much much longer period of time. Also, knowing Leavitt's unyielding loyalty to coaches (ie...simply will not fire anyone) I would think it would just be that much more important to be absolutely certain we get the best coach we can find. So for no other reason than to confirm the replacements are the "best" I don't see why wouldn't at least look at options outside the program.

I'm happy with Rod going but not sure about the replacements. I just don't understand why we don't spend a little time searching for a replacement. Of course I didn't understand it when we promoted Rod either. Upgrade/downgrade? who knows, there isn't any proven track record to go by so I guess we'll just have to hope for the best.

My take on that study is basically to question what the goal of the university should be. Are we trying to be the "affordable" university or the "quality" university? Personally I'd prefer USF to increase both the cost and quality across the board, after all there are community colleges (and a school in orlando) if your simply looking for a bargain. I have no problem questioning the state's efforts in assisting student's with their expenses but that is a seperate issue IMO.

I couldn't agree more. As long as he puts forth the effort to succeed I see no problem in going out of our way to get him here. I would feel different if we were hearing stories about legal or personality problems but there doesn't seem to be any troubles there.

Keep in mind too that the cost of actually attending school at USF is on the low side (at least it was when I attended). So, you may be spending a bit more on room and board (are meals part of the cost of on campus living?) but overall I would be surprised if the relative cost still wasn't below average.

First I would say that it's called an exception, there are always exceptions to every rule and I think age and/or marital status probably qualify. Second, many colleges have actual on campus apartment homes mainly for upper level students but would also be perfect for older studends and married couples. That could be something USF could look into later on. What I find funny though (not from your comment but just overall with threads like these) is that I hear so much anger anytime someone refers to USF as a communter school, there is thread after thread about the lack of that traditional (define it how you like) college environment (ie...we must have an OCS to provide this) and how there is no student life available to students etc, etc.... but the second someone talks about a requirement of the students that just make things less cushy for them there is all this cry against it. IMO, if you want a thriving campus environment then be prepared to make a few sacrafices to get it or be happy with the label of a commuter school. Personally I'd say that after spending my first couple years in what I would define as a "traditional" school I would argue that the added cost and discomfort of a dorm is nothing compared to the incredible time I had and it is too bad that students at USF don't get the same experience.

Living on campus ALWAYS has sucked.....it isn't until fairly recently that dorms are becoming pleasant. My dorm (not at USF) was a cinderblock hole in the wall with my bed on one side and my roomates on the other...bathrooms were a shared deal for the entire floor like an ancient YMCA. Hence part of the reason you have to force students to live there. In the end though, that is part of what creates the college environment...same argument as many use for an OCS.