4th and short.

[BrassBulls12]

4 minutes ago, Bull Dozer said:

I disagree.  It's not like HC's aren't watching the offense when they're on the sideline and they're not offensively illiterate.    They may not be involved in the game planning, play calling, drawing up plays but they can see what their offense is doing on that particular day to make those flow of the game calls.  The majority of the time the HC handles the DO (do we go for it, do we kick a fg or try to score before half etc) the OC handles the how (inside run, pass, etc).  

Well I think he watched that offense on the sideline and saw how on two straight fourth and shorts we failed, he stored that info and when he was giving the choice for the third one he decided that was good chance we probably get it. That combined with the idea of giving UCF a short field led to a punt call. 

2 minutes ago, Bull Dozer said:

I HIGHLY doubt that.  My guess is at the start of a possession CCS gets on the head set and says "Sterling let's run this clock down, or if we can pick up a 1st down here we'll try to score before the half is out" and Sterling goes to work on that.  That's the typical hierarchy..... 

He probably does but he could already made the decision that we aren't going to give them short field and the offense failed to make that happen. 

[BrassBulls12]

2 minutes ago, chapelbull said:

No he doesn't.  Strong brought him at Texas to "speed up the offense".   He doesn't act independently.  He does what the HC wants him to do.  That doesn't mean Strong calls the plays.

So what changes is strong making to Gilberts offense? What does he want him to do that is different from what Gilbert did before? 

[Bull Dozer]

10 minutes ago, BrassBulls12 said:

Well I think he watched that offense on the sideline and saw how on two straight fourth and shorts we failed, he stored that info and when he was giving the choice for the third one he decided that was good chance we probably get it. That combined with the idea of giving UCF a short field led to a punt call. 

He probably does but he could already made the decision that we aren't going to give them short field and the offense failed to make that happen. 

It's hard to know what's truly going on unless you're on the head sets/sideline  so I usually just defer to playing the "dealer" to make assertions on stuff like this.  Mine is CCS is a traditionalist and a bit of a control freak.   Because of that I'm all but certain he's making the game flow decisions its Gilbert's job to give the desired results.     

As for why he made the decision, it was definitely lack of complete confidence in his team (and OC by that's just my opinion).  But sometimes the right move isn't what you have complete confidence in.  Scared money don't make money in football and in life.   CCS is conservative as a HC so he's going to air on the side of caution especially after getting stuffed twice earlier.   More aggressive coaches would have said to Gilbert "Game is on the line here we need this 4th down give me the best play you've got, and it better not be a trap, dive, or power"

Edited November 30, 2018 by Bull Dozer

[chapelbull]

Just now, BrassBulls12 said:

So what changes is strong making to Gilberts offense? What does he want him to do that is different from what Gilbert did before? 

I have no idea.  I'm not in the offensive or coaches meetings.  

[BrassBulls12]

3 minutes ago, Bull Dozer said:

It's hard to know what's truly going on unless you're on the head sets/sideline  so I usually just defer to playing the "dealer" to make assertions on stuff like this.  Mine is CCS is a traditionalist and a bit of a control freak.   Because of that I'm all but certain he's making the game flow decisions its Gilbert's job to give the desired results.     

As for why he made the decision, it was definitely lack of complete confidence in his team.  But sometimes the right move isn't what you have complete confidence in but scared money don't make money in football and in life.   

I mostly agree with you here, with the bolded part being the complete true statement in this entire thread. I believe he makes the game flow decisions but I think those are fluid and things can change in a drive that changes what happens, I also can't just say that Gilbert isn't left out on those, for all we know Gilbert is telling Strong we don't have it. 

I definitely think it was a confidence decision, He had none in the offense and more in the defense because that's what he controls. At the point that had forced a three and out in the previous UCF drive. 

[chapelbull]

15 minutes ago, Bull Dozer said:

ICCS is conservative as a HC so he's going to air on the side of caution especially after getting stuffed twice earlier.   More aggressive coaches would have said to Gilbert "Game is on the line here we need this 4th down give me the best play you've got, and it better not be a trap, dive, or power"

And that has always been the case regardless of the OC.  Even apparent in some of those "ugly" wins

[BrassBulls12]

7 minutes ago, chapelbull said:

I have no idea.  I'm not in the offensive or coaches meetings

Good point. 

[Bull Dozer]

Just now, BrassBulls12 said:

I mostly agree with you here, with the bolded part being the complete true statement in this entire thread. I believe he makes the game flow decisions but I think those are fluid and things can change in a drive that changes what happens, I also can't just say that Gilbert isn't left out on those, for all we know Gilbert is telling Strong we don't have it. 

I definitely think it was a confidence decision, He had none in the offense and more in the defense because that's what he controls. At the point that had forced a three and out in the previous UCF drive. 

Yeah that's where I'm at too.  I'm sure Gilbert voices his opinion but in the end CCS makes the decision.  He's the guy standing at the podium after the game answering questions about decisions like that and ultimately the buck stops at him.  

[George_Bullnard_Shaw]

21 hours ago, BDYZR said:

How many years did baseball play 1st, 2nd, ss and 3rd pretty much straight up until Maddon looked at computer graphs and moved the ss to the right side of second base and the second baseman to short right field when facing a dead pull lefty?

I remember the crap Maddon took in interviews from guys like Nolan Ryan and other old school players/coaches who thought his management by analytics was absolutely crazy. They hated how he managed pitching and changed the line ups based on the days situation.

[George_Bullnard_Shaw]

Would we have gotten the one yard? Almost certainly not. I certainly had no confidence in the offense to get it with a run up the middle.

But...

Did kicking it away end the game. Yes.

Both plays likely result was a quick game over. But going for it was the play that showed you were making an effort and trying to win.

You were in an essentially lost position at that point. Making it more of a loss is zero sum. It doesn't hurt you. Going for the first down was absolutely the right call from analytics as well as game situation. Every factor in the game, points behind, limited time left, short distance, rivalry game, fan expectations all screamed to go for it. CCS played gutless and threw away the last chance to remain in the game and upset the fans.