We Have Better Players Now?

[Bull-Hornz]

Let's put it this way I think you can almost go position by position and look at the size speed and athleticism and see that the team has increased its "potential". And that is the key, we can't say much yet that they are better just that the potential overall seems to be on the level when CJL was here. The fact that he is getting hometown guys to stay or transfer into a program that is/was in the dirt when they have offers to other "major" unis is in my book impressive. For more evidence you have had freshman beat out CSH senior recruits all over the field. It's not a feeling brother you just got to look 😉

So CWT is playing his guys over the previous coach's guys? Crazy.

Are you implying that CWT is playing "his guys" over better CSH recruited upper classmen? Regardless if he recruited them or not they are all his guys now and for the most part, he is gonna play whom ever gives him the best opportunity to win. If we are going to argue about that I will bow out now...with US Open starting tmrw and CFB around the corner I don't need spin my wheels much longer 😄

I'm saying even if they're remotely equal, every coach plays his guys. And please elaborate on the freshman CWT brought in that were beating out CSH's seniors "all over the field."

My math might be off, but isn't CSH's true first class seniors right now? And not a single true freshman is starting.

Edit: Last year was his first class. Only freshman I can think that started was Mack.

There is a thread somewhere on CSH CWT receuiting classes that I tried to at least breakdown years etc. I am off to buy buttermilk for some waffles my wife is making hooray!!

[JTrue]

Let's put it this way I think you can almost go position by position and look at the size speed and athleticism and see that the team has increased its "potential". And that is the key, we can't say much yet that they are better just that the potential overall seems to be on the level when CJL was here. The fact that he is getting hometown guys to stay or transfer into a program that is/was in the dirt when they have offers to other "major" unis is in my book impressive. For more evidence you have had freshman beat out CSH senior recruits all over the field. It's not a feeling brother you just got to look 😉

So CWT is playing his guys over the previous coach's guys? Crazy.

Are you implying that CWT is playing "his guys" over better CSH recruited upper classmen? Regardless if he recruited them or not they are all his guys now and for the most part, he is gonna play whom ever gives him the best opportunity to win. If we are going to argue about that I will bow out now...with US Open starting tmrw and CFB around the corner I don't need spin my wheels much longer 😄

I'm saying even if they're remotely equal, every coach plays his guys. And please elaborate on the freshman CWT brought in that were beating out CSH's seniors "all over the field."

My math might be off, but isn't CSH's true first class seniors right now? And not a single true freshman is starting.

Edit: Last year was his first class. Only freshman I can think that started was Mack.

There is a thread somewhere on CSH CWT receuiting classes that I tried to at least breakdown years etc. I am off to buy buttermilk for some waffles my wife is making hooray!!

. Edited August 30, 2015 by JTrue

[JTrue]

Let's put it this way I think you can almost go position by position and look at the size speed and athleticism and see that the team has increased its "potential". And that is the key, we can't say much yet that they are better just that the potential overall seems to be on the level when CJL was here. The fact that he is getting hometown guys to stay or transfer into a program that is/was in the dirt when they have offers to other "major" unis is in my book impressive. For more evidence you have had freshman beat out CSH senior recruits all over the field. It's not a feeling brother you just got to look 😉

So CWT is playing his guys over the previous coach's guys? Crazy.

Are you implying that CWT is playing "his guys" over better CSH recruited upper classmen? Regardless if he recruited them or not they are all his guys now and for the most part, he is gonna play whom ever gives him the best opportunity to win. If we are going to argue about that I will bow out now...with US Open starting tmrw and CFB around the corner I don't need spin my wheels much longer 😄

I'm saying even if they're remotely equal, every coach plays his guys. And please elaborate on the freshman CWT brought in that were beating out CSH's seniors "all over the field."

My math might be off, but isn't CSH's true first class seniors right now? And not a single true freshman is starting.

Edit: Last year was his first class. Only freshman I can think that started was Mack.

There is a thread somewhere on CSH CWT receuiting classes that I tried to at least breakdown years etc. I am off to buy buttermilk for some waffles my wife is making hooray!!

I broke it down for you. Marlon Mack is the lone freshman starter the past two years.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to Home Depot to buy a single lightbulb since I'm replacing lightbulbs "all over" my house.

Edited August 30, 2015 by JTrue

[Bull-Hornz]

Let's put it this way I think you can almost go position by position and look at the size speed and athleticism and see that the team has increased its "potential". And that is the key, we can't say much yet that they are better just that the potential overall seems to be on the level when CJL was here. The fact that he is getting hometown guys to stay or transfer into a program that is/was in the dirt when they have offers to other "major" unis is in my book impressive. For more evidence you have had freshman beat out CSH senior recruits all over the field. It's not a feeling brother you just got to look 😉

So CWT is playing his guys over the previous coach's guys? Crazy.

Are you implying that CWT is playing "his guys" over better CSH recruited upper classmen? Regardless if he recruited them or not they are all his guys now and for the most part, he is gonna play whom ever gives him the best opportunity to win. If we are going to argue about that I will bow out now...with US Open starting tmrw and CFB around the corner I don't need spin my wheels much longer 😄

I'm saying even if they're remotely equal, every coach plays his guys. And please elaborate on the freshman CWT brought in that were beating out CSH's seniors "all over the field."

My math might be off, but isn't CSH's true first class seniors right now? And not a single true freshman is starting.

Edit: Last year was his first class. Only freshman I can think that started was Mack.

There is a thread somewhere on CSH CWT receuiting classes that I tried to at least breakdown years etc. I am off to buy buttermilk for some waffles my wife is making hooray!!

I broke it down for you. Marlon Mack is the lone freshman starter the past two years.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to Home Depot to buy a single lightbulb since I'm replacing lightbulbs "all over" my house.

LOL that was funny (the lightbulb bit). Thx for the entertainment unfortunately I am not up for showing you the error of your ways atm bud. Will save it for the up coming season. Cheers. Edited August 30, 2015 by Bull-Hornz

[I like GOOOOLD (and green)]

I have a serious question that seems kinda related to this topic, but could go in the recruiting thread, I guess: 

 

When these 'star' ratings are compiled, yahoo, 247, espn, etc...do they take into account only athletic metrics? Production in HS, abilities such as the 40 and benching, potential for physical maturation as examples.  The reason why I ask is that I feel this may be the case, and that one can presume naturally that the higher number of starred athletes you bring in the higher % of them turn out successful/pro type players.  

 

But, these ratings may not take into consideration intangibles between the ears-not necessarily JUST static intelligence...but sense of accountability, team work, sacrifice, work ethic, and intelligence too of course-among others.  You hear things about certain schools and how they're run that suggests they look for certain types of players, not necessarily the highest profile players.  Now, I casually wrote that mindset off as compensation for not being able to attract the number of 4 and 5 star players many schools can attract.  But, maybe there is something to this-teams like Boise, Navy, NIU, ECU, and other directional schools have been putting out quality teams (some more than others) and in some cases a good number of NFL players despite lower ceiling players supposedly.  It can't all be chalked up to staff development, can it? These are college kids that have to balance education and being a kid a college with football growth.  What do you guys think?

Edited August 30, 2015 by ECUshoein

[Guest]

 

What makes these new athletes better than our old athletes?  

1.  Our record has not improved from the days of CSH.

2.  Recruiting rankings/star level/whatever measure you want to use for rating high school talent has not improved since CSH, maybe a little, but nothing program changing.

3.  CWT saying they are better does not make them better, glorifying CWT's ability to bring in virtually the same level of talent that CSH did does not make them better.

4.  Saying that the cupboard is no longer empty does not make them better.

5.  Blaming CWT's ability to game plan and develop players does not make them better.

6.  Being ranked at the bottom of the FBS in key factors does not make them better.

7.  Saying that we had the "wrong" system for our players does not make them better.

 

1. Teams are composed of multiple years of players.  In the past two years, the team was mostly CSH players (even Mike White was a CSH recruit that Taggart kept in the fold).  It takes time for the new coach with new players to get experience and size to move from high school to college.  Three years is really a minimum, five years is often what it takes... (although the business side of the sport will not give a coach five years to turn it around).

 

2. If you look at the number of 3 (and 4) stars each coach brought in, you can see that CWT might not have 4* players, but he has fewer 2* than CSH had.  Which you have already said should be impressive because Holtz was in the Big East (BCS) and Taggert is in the American... Holtz took over a winning program, Taggart took over a losing program  (Using 247 - for consistency).  Look at the numbers for each class:

2015 - CWT - 18 3-star,  2 2-star

2014 - CWT - 27 3-star, 1 2-star

2013 - CSH/CWT - 19 3-star, 5 2-star

2012 - CSH - 2 4-star, 13 3-star, 2 2-star(one of the 2 four stars here was D'Vario Montgomery, who transferred to Iowa State, or this class would be below CWT)

2011 - CSH - 11 3-star, 11 2-star

2010 - CJL/CSH - 2 4-star  11 3-star, 7 2-star

 

3.  CWT isn't the only one saying they're better.  Reporters are saying they're better... and reporters do their best to be objective.  (People hate the fact that Joey Knight and others are 'negative' about USF.  But their job is to present what they see -- and these people are saying USF's players are better.)

4 . We can say the cupboard is no longer empty BECAUSE the players are better.

 

5. Blaming CWT doesn't make the players worse either.  That is a non-argument -- CWT's playcalling and gameplanning have nothing to do with the overall talent level of the players.

 

6. National rankings for last year will be a good measure to see if the team is better, not whether or not the players are individually better.

 

7. Saying the system was wrong is a good reason to explain why USF was losing -- changing the system to fit the ability of the players doesn't make the players better, however it does mean the overall team should be better.

[JTrue]

Let's put it this way I think you can almost go position by position and look at the size speed and athleticism and see that the team has increased its "potential". And that is the key, we can't say much yet that they are better just that the potential overall seems to be on the level when CJL was here. The fact that he is getting hometown guys to stay or transfer into a program that is/was in the dirt when they have offers to other "major" unis is in my book impressive. For more evidence you have had freshman beat out CSH senior recruits all over the field. It's not a feeling brother you just got to look 😉

So CWT is playing his guys over the previous coach's guys? Crazy.

Are you implying that CWT is playing "his guys" over better CSH recruited upper classmen? Regardless if he recruited them or not they are all his guys now and for the most part, he is gonna play whom ever gives him the best opportunity to win. If we are going to argue about that I will bow out now...with US Open starting tmrw and CFB around the corner I don't need spin my wheels much longer 😄

I'm saying even if they're remotely equal, every coach plays his guys. And please elaborate on the freshman CWT brought in that were beating out CSH's seniors "all over the field."

My math might be off, but isn't CSH's true first class seniors right now? And not a single true freshman is starting.

Edit: Last year was his first class. Only freshman I can think that started was Mack.

There is a thread somewhere on CSH CWT receuiting classes that I tried to at least breakdown years etc. I am off to buy buttermilk for some waffles my wife is making hooray!!

I broke it down for you. Marlon Mack is the lone freshman starter the past two years.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to Home Depot to buy a single lightbulb since I'm replacing lightbulbs "all over" my house.

LOL that was funny (the lightbulb bit). Thx for the entertainment unfortunately I am not up for showing you the error of your ways atm bud. Will save it for the up coming season. Cheers.

You've already written 500 words instead of a second name other than Mack. Take your time, I'm in no hurry.

[ArmyBull]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's put it this way I think you can almost go position by position and look at the size speed and athleticism and see that the team has increased its "potential". And that is the key, we can't say much yet that they are better just that the potential overall seems to be on the level when CJL was here. The fact that he is getting hometown guys to stay or transfer into a program that is/was in the dirt when they have offers to other "major" unis is in my book impressive. For more evidence you have had freshman beat out CSH senior recruits all over the field. It's not a feeling brother you just got to look

So CWT is playing his guys over the previous coach's guys? Crazy.

Are you implying that CWT is playing "his guys" over better CSH recruited upper classmen? Regardless if he recruited them or not they are all his guys now and for the most part, he is gonna play whom ever gives him the best opportunity to win. If we are going to argue about that I will bow out now...with US Open starting tmrw and CFB around the corner I don't need spin my wheels much longer

I'm saying even if they're remotely equal, every coach plays his guys. And please elaborate on the freshman CWT brought in that were beating out CSH's seniors "all over the field."

My math might be off, but isn't CSH's true first class seniors right now? And not a single true freshman is starting.

Edit: Last year was his first class. Only freshman I can think that started was Mack.

There is a thread somewhere on CSH CWT receuiting classes that I tried to at least breakdown years etc. I am off to buy buttermilk for some waffles my wife is making hooray!!

I broke it down for you. Marlon Mack is the lone freshman starter the past two years.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to Home Depot to buy a single lightbulb since I'm replacing lightbulbs "all over" my house.

LOL that was funny (the lightbulb bit). Thx for the entertainment unfortunately I am not up for showing you the error of your ways atm bud. Will save it for the up coming season. Cheers.

You've already written 500 words instead of a second name other than Mack. Take your time, I'm in no hurry.

 

 

Classic!  C'mon Bull-Hornz, give credit where credit is due, that was some lol stuff.  

[Bull-Hornz]

Let's put it this way I think you can almost go position by position and look at the size speed and athleticism and see that the team has increased its "potential". And that is the key, we can't say much yet that they are better just that the potential overall seems to be on the level when CJL was here. The fact that he is getting hometown guys to stay or transfer into a program that is/was in the dirt when they have offers to other "major" unis is in my book impressive. For more evidence you have had freshman beat out CSH senior recruits all over the field. It's not a feeling brother you just got to look

So CWT is playing his guys over the previous coach's guys? Crazy.

Are you implying that CWT is playing "his guys" over better CSH recruited upper classmen? Regardless if he recruited them or not they are all his guys now and for the most part, he is gonna play whom ever gives him the best opportunity to win. If we are going to argue about that I will bow out now...with US Open starting tmrw and CFB around the corner I don't need spin my wheels much longer

I'm saying even if they're remotely equal, every coach plays his guys. And please elaborate on the freshman CWT brought in that were beating out CSH's seniors "all over the field."

My math might be off, but isn't CSH's true first class seniors right now? And not a single true freshman is starting.

Edit: Last year was his first class. Only freshman I can think that started was Mack.

There is a thread somewhere on CSH CWT receuiting classes that I tried to at least breakdown years etc. I am off to buy buttermilk for some waffles my wife is making hooray!!

I broke it down for you. Marlon Mack is the lone freshman starter the past two years.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to Home Depot to buy a single lightbulb since I'm replacing lightbulbs "all over" my house.

LOL that was funny (the lightbulb bit). Thx for the entertainment unfortunately I am not up for showing you the error of your ways atm bud. Will save it for the up coming season. Cheers.

You've already written 500 words instead of a second name other than Mack. Take your time, I'm in no hurry.

Classic! C'mon Bull-Hornz, give credit where credit is due, that was some lol stuff.

I did...I was laughing as well...looking forward to the season. He still not right lol (jab jab) im just being lazy on my lazy boy recliner atm ;-)

[TromBull12]

Let's put it this way I think you can almost go position by position and look at the size speed and athleticism and see that the team has increased its "potential". And that is the key, we can't say much yet that they are better just that the potential overall seems to be on the level when CJL was here. The fact that he is getting hometown guys to stay or transfer into a program that is/was in the dirt when they have offers to other "major" unis is in my book impressive. For more evidence you have had freshman beat out CSH senior recruits all over the field. It's not a feeling brother you just got to look

So CWT is playing his guys over the previous coach's guys? Crazy.

Are you implying that CWT is playing "his guys" over better CSH recruited upper classmen? Regardless if he recruited them or not they are all his guys now and for the most part, he is gonna play whom ever gives him the best opportunity to win. If we are going to argue about that I will bow out now...with US Open starting tmrw and CFB around the corner I don't need spin my wheels much longer

I'm saying even if they're remotely equal, every coach plays his guys. And please elaborate on the freshman CWT brought in that were beating out CSH's seniors "all over the field."

My math might be off, but isn't CSH's true first class seniors right now? And not a single true freshman is starting.

Edit: Last year was his first class. Only freshman I can think that started was Mack.

There is a thread somewhere on CSH CWT receuiting classes that I tried to at least breakdown years etc. I am off to buy buttermilk for some waffles my wife is making hooray!!

I broke it down for you. Marlon Mack is the lone freshman starter the past two years.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to Home Depot to buy a single lightbulb since I'm replacing lightbulbs "all over" my house.

LOL that was funny (the lightbulb bit). Thx for the entertainment unfortunately I am not up for showing you the error of your ways atm bud. Will save it for the up coming season. Cheers.

You've already written 500 words instead of a second name other than Mack. Take your time, I'm in no hurry.

Classic! C'mon Bull-Hornz, give credit where credit is due, that was some lol stuff.

It was entertaining, but I feel so much negativity. Sounds like the "I want it done yesterday mentality." We said our program was boned when CWT got here. He's making adjustments where he can with what he can. We all agree that Marlon Mack was one of the best players on our team and we didn't have a reliable quarterback or batch of receivers right? So why do we complain when he ran a offense that put the ball in the hands of one of our only playmakers???

It's cool to say adjust the offense to fit the talents of the players we had, but really, what players did we have that we could have adjusted for?

I love my bulls and support them and the coach as much as I can buy I'm admittedly not a hardcore know the numbers type of fan. I gather what info I can from watching and reading here then I form my opinion. So please inform me. It just seems to me that "Haters are going to hate" No matter what was put on the field.

I assume if we went pass happy we would have been off the field quicker if not lost by a larger margin. So I don't know what he could have done to appease some of you.

Edited August 30, 2015 by TromBull12