What positives have CWT accomplished?

[JTrue]

http://www.perfectgame.org/players/playerprofile.aspx?ID=275895

Mike White's fastball topped out at 86 in the premier baseball showcase in the country. That's from a bullpen mound, basically like a bench press max for pitching. He wasn't getting drafted anywhere near a spot that was going to pay him to stay away from football. High school kids don't go from a high pick with a six figure bonus to undrafted and not playing.

(And for whoever is going to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm a former college baseball player who coached high school ball and travel ball and have had too many players of mine to count go on to play in college and/or professional baseball. Anthony Rizzo would probably be the name most of you would recognize if you want at least one name. And that coaching was done in Palm Beach and Broward, the same county White is from.)

Edited July 16, 2014 by JTrue

[Triple B]

In 10 years we've recruited 2 quality QBs... BJ and Grothe.  I'm saying what Taggart has done is gotten 2 good QBs and one exceptional QB in, in less than a year and a half on the job.  Something the previous coaches couldn't do.  We could never recruit QB...

 

Although I agree for the most part that qb has been a recruiting weak spot long term, in 10 years we've actually recruited 3 quality QB's, adding Carlton Hill to BJ and Matt.

[USFbulls24]

 

 

 

He was pointing out that it does make sense to call plays/schemes based on the personnel you have and that he's in favor of that. Not sure why that's such an issue. He could have implemented his power run system and threw in some plays that cater to some of our players strengths. It doesn't take a genius to run a few plays that are considered "Spread". At this point I'm glad he stuck to his guns and stayed with his offense so that all the bumps and bruises can now be out of the way. But, if those issues are not fixed this season again it's all out the window for me. 

 

I do agree with a lot of what you said, but Mike White's second best offer at the time of his commitment was like Eastern Illinois wasn't it? Not sure if Taggart should be praised for that one. But, Taggart has shown he's an incredible recruiter having pulled in that good of a recruiting class coming off a 2-10 year in the AAC. Can't wait to see what he'll do with a decent season.

 

Not sure about the forward momentum and excitement part either from the general fan base. I would argue after a 2-10 season excitement may possibly be at an all time low.. I guess we'll find out from attendance early in the year.

 

With you on the B.J. issue as well. Wasn't just people on here, it was students and other fans. They are realizing how wrong they were now.

 

Lord... do you really know that much about recruiting.  First most didn't know if White was even going to play football in college and then he committed and shut down his recruiting.  What you don't know is he was offered by Mississippi State, La Tech, and Houston.  He wasn't the typical recruit in that once he committed he shut it down and stopped taking calls.  So saying White's best offer was from Eastern Illinois tells me you don't really follow recruiting.

 

Secondly he tried different plays to get the power game going but without the threat of play action and blocking from the offensive line it's for nada.  Our offensive line was waaaay undersized and too weak to run a power offense.  I don't think you know what that takes.  Do you think that it's a coincidence that the line has gained almost 15 pounds per man across the board this year?  It has increased in strength and size.  This year we are made to run the power offense.  Our line from tackle to tackle was 287, 305, 273, 312, 310  and all very weak and coming from a spread system.  This season we're looking at the biggest line in school history that looks to line up 308, 332, 295, 321, 320... that's what it takes to execute this offense.  I don't think people believed him when he said "we have to get bigger and stronger... we need bigger bodies.. people movers."  I mean you can only run so many reverses and gadget plays.  We were drastically undersized on both sides of the ball and that was Skips doing.  Taggart ragged on the guys about it and they took it to heart.  He said they didn't look like Division I football players and they were not strong enough nor were they fast enough.  I guess people ignored that hoping for  a12-0 season.

 

You are saying he should have run different running plays in a "power offense" with no power.  If nobody noticed, the offensive line got pushed around last year.  Even by our defense in practices, spring ball, and fall camp... this year not so much.  So I stick to what I said.. unless he ran the spread, he didn't have the personnel to run the offense.  Shaw is not the typical back he wants for this offense.  McFarland went up to 260 because he was too small... he trimmed Price out so he looks like a TE not a fat boy with wheels.  I mean I get what you want to get at but look at the entire picture.   This was an 0-12 team last year and Taggart did a decent job with crap.  The QB recruiting under Holtz was so bad that a true freshman had to come in and play and that's sad.

 

In regards to a the penalties and long plays... there is a reason that no true freshman has started in this offense, it is complicated and takes a while to learn the entire scheme.  Any time Andrew Luck has to redshirt in this offense it's tough.  Taggart did everything he could to keep White off the field because he wasn't ready... but he was the most talented guy we have.  Also he grades high as hell... He's not 6'4 210 and that kid looks the part.  Just for a little perspective.  As I said there were too many unrealistic expectations last season.  This is the year where you can start judging Taggart.  Not a year with little talent and players not constructed to run the system. 

 

If you don't see the momentum that is being built you're either so far away from the program you can't or you're jaded after years of failure.  As a donor and Alumni I see it.  Things are happening and I'm sorry you're not a part of it but that appears to be of your own volition.  This is the first time I've looked forward to football since fall 2011.  Excitement was at an all time low last season.  One we open up things will be just fine.  

 

 

Lord....... So you're telling me schools didn't offer Mike White because they were unsure if he was going to play baseball instead? If the recruit is good enough they offer him and let him make the decision. I do know he was offered by those schools, but to my knowledge those offers came AFTER USFs offer and AFTER he verbally committed to us. If you actually read what I said above, I said at the time of his commitment to USF his next best offer (according to recruiting sites, was Eastern Illinois or some tiny school like that). 

 

Not sure how to respond to your entire second paragraph. I completely agree our team needed to get bigger and stronger, especially the oline and I'm glad they did. I wasn't saying he should try different plays in the power run game, I thought it would've been nice to see him run some plays that catered to the strength of the personnel we actually had... And I'm not talking a few gadget plays where they put bench in at QB in shotgun and ran QB draws.. So, implement his power run offense, use that 90+% of the game because that's your philosophy and the offense you'd like to run, but on very important 3rd and 9 plays or whenever, run a 5 wide quick bubble screen play or some type of play that our players actually were fit for. I didn't ignore anything and expected a very bad season. I didn't expect 2-10, but I guess 4-8 was unrealistic. Especially a win week 1..

 

I completely agree that the talent on the team last year was very bad and that recruiting in general was god awful with Holtz. I never "judged" Taggart. 

 

If I don't see the momentum? Haha. We had a very good recruiting class, but I'm just realistic. Things are going to get better because they have to, and he's got some young talent to work with at this point. But we are still without a reliable QB. I understand White was young and still is, but looking at the whole picture, his year last year is not something you look at and say, OMG WE HAVE THE QB OF THE FUTURE HERE. I like him and he works hard, but he still has a ton to prove. I am not saying he's not good either, I'm just saying we really don't know what we have with him. We also lost a ton on Defense. So 1 year at 2-10 and 1 good recruiting class = we have momentum? Sorry I just don't see it that way. I follow USF football religiously, go to every game, etc. so I'm plenty close to it and I'm not jaded. I guess we just have very different ideas of what momentum means. 

 

I read what you said and it doesn't mean a thing.  Nobody knew how good he was at the start of the season and most thought he'd either go in the MLB draft or he'd focus on baseball.  I mean that's common knowledge and that affected his recruiting.  Besides, his senior year was his first year as a starter and teams took a long hard look at him.  He also left no time for other offers after the season because he committed at the State Championship game.  The one he won.   

 

What you're saying makes no sense.  In 10 years we've recruited 2 quality QBs... BJ and Grothe.  I'm saying what Taggart has done is gotten 2 good QBs and one exceptional QB in, in less than a year and a half on the job.  Something the previous coaches couldn't do.  We could never recruit QB...  I mean I don't get what you're getting at.  We have never had balanced recruiting like this.

 

So year... "Lord" I think casual fans with limited knowledge of recruiting and players on the roster normally speak from emotion and have no idea as to what is really going on.  The season will tell.  This is all silly talk and I'm convinced you have no idea as to what is going on in the program.  We've actually had 2 good recruiting classes under Taggart.  We cracked the top 50 in back to back years for the first time since 2009.  So would you like to rethink and post again?

 

PS... For all practical purposes either White or Flowers is likely the QB of the future... so yeah... the future QB his here.  I guess you're going to say next Flowers isn't good.  smh

 

 

Dude you're taking things and spinning them and bringing up things that we aren't even talking about. I've said multiple times in this conversation that Taggart is an incredible recruiter and I can't wait to see what he can do with a decent season if he can pull in a top 40 class with a 2-10 showing. I completely agree we haven't ever had recruiting like this, when did I say otherwise? But please excuse me, apparently I'm speaking with Mr. college football recruiting himself. I don't pretend to know all like you, but I do like to follow what's going on and have for awhile as well.

 

It may have affected his recruiting a tiny bit, but he's not the only high school kid to ever have a decision to make. Giancarlo Stanton for the Marlins, had offers from USC and big schools like that for football, he chose baseball. It happens all the time, if the kid is good enough he gets the offer and they wait and let him make a decision. 

 

What have I possibly said that makes you think I have no clue what's going on? haha. Yea, we had the 49 ranked recruiting class the year Holtz was fired, but all but a handful were Holtz recruits that stayed. I'm sure if Taggart was there from the start 75% of those players wouldn't of been signed because they don't fit his style/scheme etc. Taggart did have a few great flips like Calloway and Robbins (but as you've pointed out I don't have a clue what's going on).

 

Where is this coming from?? Where did I say Taggart hasn't brought in talent at QB or that we don't have the QB of the future. I said we don't know if Mike White is the QB of the future. Which I don't see how you could possibly argue? He had like 3 TD's to 11 INT's last season. Like I said, I like him and he works hard but he still has a lot to prove. Flowers looks like he could be really good, but we don't know about him either. Perfect example is Jeff Driskel and John Brantley at UF. They were the best of the best of their recruiting classes at QB and turned out to be awful. I think White or Flowers will work out though. Just don't know which one and won't pretend like it's impossible both don't work out as our QB. 

 

I agree with a lot of what you said in these convos, I just don't think we have "momentum" going after last season and 1 only Taggart recruiting class. If because I don't think we really know what we have at QB right now on the roster and disagree that we have a lot of momentum going means you take that as I don't have a clue what's going on then that's a bit irrational. 

Edited July 16, 2014 by USFbulls24

[usfgrad84]

It started with the QB last year, but if anyone had bothered to look at the roster.  I mean really take a look at the roster, going into last year there was every indication that the offense was going to be the complete train wreck it turned out to be.  

 

#1.  All you had to do was watch how the offensive line performed the year before once BJ was hurt.  Without the athletic ability of BJ you knew it was going to be a disaster for the QB.

 

#2.  There was very little experience at the QB position regardless of the talent and athletic ability.  A couple starts and kneel downs from Eveld is hardly experience for any offense let alone a complicated.  Especially an offense with no ability to block on the OL.  Once you get to the college level playing RB is not just about being able to outrun the defense.  There are other responsibilities like blocking schemes and catching the ball.  

 

#3.  Our only experienced RB was a 165lb shifty back.  Did anyone really expect him to go the entire season running between the tackles in a power running game?  Even he didn't sustain the injury he did, Shaw would have been physically worn down halfway through the season.  Without any experienced back ups, what we got out of the backs was expected.  

 

#4.  We had one proven WR.  With one proven receiver it is not too difficult to take him out of the game.  Especially when you have a lone that can't block to give the QB time to throw.  Just being an athlete that can run fast doesn't make you a competent receiver.  Something that has plagued our receiving corp for many years.

 

Still too early to know what we will get from this team,  All indications are that things are moving in the right direction and we have a little more experience at most positions.  I expect improvement over the last couple of years, but just how much is anyone's guess right now.

[charsibb]

It's crazy... I don't know how anybody can look at that team in hindsight and think they could have been any better given the QB situation.  I'm beginning to think nobody knew how bad Bobby and Matt were.  It's crazy... We had to literally use a soph transfer who didn't know 1/5 of the playbook because the guys we had coming back, who knew the playbook a little, were complete garbage.  Bench was thrown into the fire and didn't respond well... I didn't expect him to, he didn't know the offense.  White was a 6'4 185 pound true freshman who barely knew some of the offense when he was thrown in.  He wasn't ready but he was all we had.  I think he performed well considering the offense and what he had to work with.  It's delusional to think this team was 4 win team.  It was a 2 win team.  I don't know how any rational person expected anything else.  Silliness is what it is.  The team Taggart got was terrible.  This is the year you pull out the grading markers.

 

 

I don't know if I'd go so far as terrible, but they certainly weren't very good, not to mention unmotivated and out of shape.

 

But this is my whole point. If you don't have the players to run your scheme, you recruit ones who can. But until you get them, you change the scheme to fit the talent you have.

 

Reminds me of the old saying, "when the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look a lot like a nail."

 

Taggart was "hammering" away at motion and shifts and long play calling and complicated plays with a group of young kids who couldn't execute it. And he didn't adapt. Hopefully this year he will have the players to run his scheme, but I'm still worried about his stubborn inability to adapt.

 

IMO, one of the main reasons Jim Leavitt is gone, was because he couldn't adapt to his conference peers when they figured him out.

 

Adapt or die, like the dinosaurs. Like the Jim.

[Bulls On Parade]

Why would you teach the young players something that isn't your system just so instead of going 2-10 maybe you go 3-9 only to change it on them the next year.  

 

Taggart didn't need to change his system he needed to teach "his" system to the players and if they didn't adapt and learn his system they would never get playing time so that might motivate some of them to transfer away and open up more spots for players Taggart can use.

 

 

Taggart is doing a whole program rebuild and that starts with tearing down everything to the foundation this isn't some patch job.

[Calibull]

Why would you teach the young players something that isn't your system just so instead of going 2-10 maybe you go 3-9 only to change it on them the next year.  

 

Taggart didn't need to change his system he needed to teach "his" system to the players and if they didn't adapt and learn his system they would never get playing time so that might motivate some of them to transfer away and open up more spots for players Taggart can use.

 

 

Taggart is doing a whole program rebuild and that starts with tearing down everything to the foundation this isn't some patch job.

Great comment.  

[Triple B]

 

It's crazy... I don't know how anybody can look at that team in hindsight and think they could have been any better given the QB situation.  I'm beginning to think nobody knew how bad Bobby and Matt were.  It's crazy... We had to literally use a soph transfer who didn't know 1/5 of the playbook because the guys we had coming back, who knew the playbook a little, were complete garbage.  Bench was thrown into the fire and didn't respond well... I didn't expect him to, he didn't know the offense.  White was a 6'4 185 pound true freshman who barely knew some of the offense when he was thrown in.  He wasn't ready but he was all we had.  I think he performed well considering the offense and what he had to work with.  It's delusional to think this team was 4 win team.  It was a 2 win team.  I don't know how any rational person expected anything else.  Silliness is what it is.  The team Taggart got was terrible.  This is the year you pull out the grading markers.

 

 

I don't know if I'd go so far as terrible, but they certainly weren't very good, not to mention unmotivated and out of shape.

 

But this is my whole point. If you don't have the players to run your scheme, you recruit ones who can. But until you get them, you change the scheme to fit the talent you have.

 

 

 

According to our resident experts, we had little to no talent so CWT did the right thing in going with what he's going to run when he gets his talent in here. Gets the coaches familiar with running it and the youngsters that are forming the foundation for the future experience with it.

[Triple B]

It's crazy... I don't know how anybody can look at that team in hindsight and think they could have been any better given the QB situation.  I'm beginning to think nobody knew how bad Bobby and Matt were.  It's crazy... We had to literally use a soph transfer who didn't know 1/5 of the playbook because the guys we had coming back, who knew the playbook a little, were complete garbage.  Bench was thrown into the fire and didn't respond well... I didn't expect him to, he didn't know the offense.  White was a 6'4 185 pound true freshman who barely knew some of the offense when he was thrown in.  He wasn't ready but he was all we had.  I think he performed well considering the offense and what he had to work with.  It's delusional to think this team was 4 win team.  It was a 2 win team.  I don't know how any rational person expected anything else.  Silliness is what it is.  The team Taggart got was terrible.  This is the year you pull out the grading markers.

 

I don't think it's delusional nor irrational to have expected to beat McNeese and FAU ...

[slick1ru2]

That is a thought, what are the chances of getting an invite if USF goes 6-6 with the current number of bowl tie-ins and the current state of the fanbase?