Holtz is our

[cmhatter]

I'm not anti leavitt... It was time for a change but I supported that guy a TON prior to the incident.

I ALWAYS said he should be allowed to finish his contract.

I'm in Camp USF.... The one that wants to see USF succeed. I don't want holtz to perform well to outshine leavitt. I want USF to win championships.

There really isn't a pro leavitt crowd on here save like 5 people....

Most are pro USF frustrated with season.

[Bull94]

the Leavitt comparisons only come in when the Holtz Haters start this "well we were never this bad when CJL was around" rah rah.

You've been very active on the board. It's not hard to see where the Huggers pull out the comparison to Leavitt. At the beginning of this thread and another new one started on the board. I just don't get why anyone would compare to the past at this point. It's a little early for that.

well to be fair this thread was started by a HoltzHater/LeavittLover so the comparison was inherent in the context if not explicitly stated.

people don't generally get THIS passionate about a coach in his 2nd year with a program who has an overall winning record (13-10), has yet to have a losing season (we are still .500 last i checked), with our first bowl win over an AQ opponent and signature wins over storied programs UNLESS there are ulterior motives.

what could those motives be? the only two i can think of are 1) overinflated expectations, which are the fault of the fan not the coach in question or 2) anger over a controversial dismissal of the previous coach.

casual fans, new fans or objective fans who had no affinity for the previous coach may think Holtz is mediocre and may even think we could use a new/better coach, but the passion and "hatred" wouldn't run so high. we can ignore that passion all we want, but the reality is it permeates every single one of these threads and the cause is pretty clear and obvious.

I'm no leavitt lover. I wanted him gone 2 years before he was. I thought he hit his ceiling. I'm the type that likes to cut his losses. I've seen enough of holtz to feel he doesn't have what it takes to take us to the next level. I'm not saying we fire him but I wouldn't be upset if he left.

BTW we are not 1/3 of the way through this year. we have 2 games left. we are 5/6ths of the way through.

[Bull94]

By the way, I don't see a lot of Holtz-Huggers. I see people trying to give the guy a fair shot.

Even before Slap-gate, a lot of the people defending Holtz now were defending Leavitt (including me) and saying he needed more time.

This really isn't about Leavitt vs Holtz. It's about the irrational belief that 13 years into our existence we have the talent to compete for a Top 5 spot in the national rankings.

Same discussion, different coach.

top 5 in the rankings?? hell I would settle for top 5 in the worst BCS conference. why do people that always argue we are young just give it tim always say people expect us to be top 5 or on the level of OU or ohio state? nobody expects that. we only expect to be competitive in the lousy BE.

[Triple B]

There really shouldn't be camps. Leavitt is gone and never coming back... Ever.

He walked Around the streets handing out his usf Gear and now hes making like 1/10th of his USF money.... 3000 miles away.... And is not in discussions for any jobs around the country...

He's irrelevant to USF anymore. Prolly won't be recognized for anything he did here until welllllll after holtz is gone. We can talk about him then.

Skips the coach... There should just be a USF camp. That's impossible for some though.

You're always going to have "camps" within that camp ... and with the way the regime change happened here, those type of coaching camps being drawn up was inevitable ... although, I think too much is being blamed on the CJL vs CSH thing. Reality is you've got a bunch of Jim "haters" who have slid easily into the role Skip "haters" because they were sure all that was needed to immediately vault USF to the top of the Big East was a coaching change ...

[Bull94]

I agree things haven't gone well, but it's not like we've been getting out **** kicked. Give it a year or two if it doesn't improve then things have to change.

that almost makes it worse for me. good coaches find a way to win close games. holtz has been less than spectacular in closing out games.

if we were getting blown out and we were rebuilding i could accept that he needs more time. I just think we are too talented, as far as the big east is concerned, to not be competitive.

Mack brown. Urban Meyer. Struggled to close games last year...they must not be good coaches...

And we've been competitive in the Big East. Three games lost in the last minute. Doesn't get much more competitive than that. We've just been on the wrong side of the scoreboard

mack brown isn't a good coach he just happens to coach one of the best programs around. he has done way less with more talent then most. urban meyer would have won another national championship if cam newton didn't buy a stolen laptop. urban meyer turned 3 different programs into legit top 25 teams within his 2nd year. he proves that a good coach can have success immediately.

[Bull94]

we will go bowling...

we just need to realize how much of a falacy this team was... finishing strong last year blew up the expectations... we will go nowhere until we can get a quarterback.

who do you need? andrew luck? BTW BJ ranks 6 spots ahead of him for total yards. I hate the QB excuse. UofL is winning with a true freshman. hell rutgers and uconn both trotted out stiffs against us. same with pitt only we made him look legit.

we have the #1 rushing offense in the BE. our lousy QB is the 4th best runner in this league and that includes running backs. hell he is #2 in passing yards. that is against BE competition.

I'm so tired of people with the QB excuse.

[cmhatter]

we will go bowling...

we just need to realize how much of a falacy this team was... finishing strong last year blew up the expectations... we will go nowhere until we can get a quarterback.

who do you need? andrew luck? BTW BJ ranks 6 spots ahead of him for total yards. I hate the QB excuse. UofL is winning with a true freshman. hell rutgers and uconn both trotted out stiffs against us. same with pitt only we made him look legit.

we have the #1 rushing offense in the BE. our lousy QB is the 4th best runner in this league and that includes running backs. hell he is #2 in passing yards. that is against BE competition.

I'm so tired of people with the QB excuse.

You just posted about Andrew luck and BJD in the same post...

[cmhatter]

Skip will win here.

[Who'sYourData?]

mack brown isn't a good coach he just happens to coach one of the best programs around. he has done way less with more talent then most. urban meyer would have won another national championship if cam newton didn't buy a stolen laptop. urban meyer turned 3 different programs into legit top 25 teams within his 2nd year. he proves that a good coach can have success immediately.

That proves he took over teams with lots of talent and left before his horrible recruiting became obvious.

He didn't leave Florida for his health or family. If he had, he wouldn't be taking the Ohio State job.

[Joe]

I agree things haven't gone well, but it's not like we've been getting out **** kicked. Give it a year or two if it doesn't improve then things have to change.

that almost makes it worse for me. good coaches find a way to win close games. holtz has been less than spectacular in closing out games.

if we were getting blown out and we were rebuilding i could accept that he needs more time. I just think we are too talented, as far as the big east is concerned, to not be competitive.

Mack brown. Urban Meyer. Struggled to close games last year...they must not be good coaches...

And we've been competitive in the Big East. Three games lost in the last minute. Doesn't get much more competitive than that. We've just been on the wrong side of the scoreboard

mack brown isn't a good coach he just happens to coach one of the best programs around. he has done way less with more talent then most. urban meyer would have won another national championship if cam newton didn't buy a stolen laptop. urban meyer turned 3 different programs into legit top 25 teams within his 2nd year. he proves that a good coach can have success immediately.

Dude. Do you know ANYTHING about Mack Brown? Obviously not.