Holtz is our

[TrujilloBull2013]

bottom line, the old Leavitt groupie crowd is going to kill this program if they don't get over their sour grapes.

one monkey don't stop no show.

this program will be in constant rebuild if the old crowd runs every coach not named Jim Leavitt out the door before he's even fully in it.

the question is not Leavitt vs. Holtz or any other coach. the question now is what's more important to u: the success of the program or vindicating Leavitt's name by watching the program fail without him?

Reading the board pretty much throughout, I see Leavitt Lovers wanting him back. I see Holtz Huggers comparing him to Leavitt. Both parties need to move on.

i see "Holtz huggers" simply asking for the guy to have a fair shot at this without calling for his head 1 1/3 seasons into his tenure. the Leavitt comparisons only come in when the Holtz Haters start this "well we were never this bad when CJL was around" rah rah.

then the "Holtz huggers" get blamed for responding to the comparisons. it's ridiculous.

[cmhatter]

my guess is we rattle off some wins late and then our program gets pumped up as the favorite for next year

Yeah, and ranked #22 in the preseason.

Then we will lose 4-5 games and want to fire skip

[TrujilloBull2013]

this is what happens with cults of personality... ONE GUY becomes bigger than the program, and in the event he's removed it becomes a poison pill to the entire thing.

the fact that CJL is still an issue is evidence enough that he embodies that cult of personality. not necessarily his fault, as i'm sure a lot of it has to do with his starting up the program and being a local guy, but the cultists need to let go for the sake of this program. that doesn't mean diving head first into a pitcher of Holtz kool-aid, but it does mean putting program before personality. let Leavitt go.

[Brad]

the Leavitt comparisons only come in when the Holtz Haters start this "well we were never this bad when CJL was around" rah rah.

You've been very active on the board. It's not hard to see where the Huggers pull out the comparison to Leavitt. At the beginning of this thread and another new one started on the board. I just don't get why anyone would compare to the past at this point. It's a little early for that.

[cmhatter]

I honestly think we need to recruit much better than we have...

When we can afford to redshirt a guy like Andre davis... that's when we know we have enough talent

[Bull-by-Marriage]

the Leavitt comparisons only come in when the Holtz Haters start this "well we were never this bad when CJL was around" rah rah.

You've been very active on the board. It's not hard to see where the Huggers pull out the comparison to Leavitt. At the beginning of this thread and another new one started on the board. I just don't get why anyone would compare to the past at this point. It's a little early for that.

What else are we supposed to compare the present too?

[TrujilloBull2013]

the Leavitt comparisons only come in when the Holtz Haters start this "well we were never this bad when CJL was around" rah rah.

You've been very active on the board. It's not hard to see where the Huggers pull out the comparison to Leavitt. At the beginning of this thread and another new one started on the board. I just don't get why anyone would compare to the past at this point. It's a little early for that.

well to be fair this thread was started by a HoltzHater/LeavittLover so the comparison was inherent in the context if not explicitly stated.

people don't generally get THIS passionate about a coach in his 2nd year with a program who has an overall winning record (13-10), has yet to have a losing season (we are still .500 last i checked), with our first bowl win over an AQ opponent and signature wins over storied programs UNLESS there are ulterior motives.

what could those motives be? the only two i can think of are 1) overinflated expectations, which are the fault of the fan not the coach in question or 2) anger over a controversial dismissal of the previous coach.

casual fans, new fans or objective fans who had no affinity for the previous coach may think Holtz is mediocre and may even think we could use a new/better coach, but the passion and "hatred" wouldn't run so high. we can ignore that passion all we want, but the reality is it permeates every single one of these threads and the cause is pretty clear and obvious.

[BullDoug]

This prevent D on third downs and late in the fourth qtrs is crap. Why the DC hasn't corrected it is unacceptable. At this point I do not see much diff in team play betw the past regime and the new one. Maybe a little less in blocks in the back, holding or late hits on specialty teams but then again I cant remember a KO or PR TD. Getting rid of the the new regime after two yrs woud be ludicrous. Almost every coach deserves 5 yrs.

If BJ could learn to throw the dang ball out of bounds then this O would be about 10-15% more effective. I do not understand the D giving up 3rd and long all the time. The D is great on two of three plays. Anyway this team is 0-4 on four close games. I think the real record of the team should be 6-4 maybe even 7-3. Its getting zero breaks right now. I know I know you make your own breaks but Bonani's miss at Rutgers and BJ's shoulder yesterday at just bad luck.

Making a bowl must be a priority. Its 4 extra weeks of practice. The young kids need it. If BJ improves the same next yr as he did this yr from last Bulls should be competitive.

[Brad]

but the passion and "hatred" wouldn't run so high.

Must be the new political correctness.  I really can't believe that anyone hates Holtz.  That would be ridiculous.  The fact that some consider criticism to be "hatred" is born of the same misguided passion.  It's clear there is still an open wound on both sides of the previous coach debate.

[Who'sYourData?]

What did Jimmy ever do in the Big East?

I don't get why so many defending Holtz keep bringing up Leavitt...

Probably because the anti-Holtz crowd keeps bringing up Leavitt.