USF/Big East Realignment Discussion Thread

[mikemcp88]

As much as I would rather be in the ACC or SEC than merging, it would be interesting merging and then possibly getting Boise State, which is possible per LA Times. Being in a conference with Boise, TCU, West Virginia sounds pretty good. Boise State would have been to a NC game if they were in a BCS conference. Baylor and Louisville are improving as well. May not be as bad as it sounds or looks on the map.

[charsibb]

The North Carolina schools (who pretty much run the conference) won't want us because of our academics and the fact that we will cut even further into their recruiting in FL.  Miami won't want us there because we are already making up ground against them without being in a conference that is perceived as just as good as the ACC so we will really hurt them once we are in the same conference and the NCAA slaps them down with big time penalties.  FSU could go either way but I just don't see how having a 3rd ACC team from FL helps them in any way to realistically argue for our addition.  AS far as our market I think between FSU and Miami the ACC already has a big time presence in the state of FL so really it's just over saturation.  This is why Cuse and Pitt were added, new markets, Pennsylvania is a solid talent producing state to boot.  If they were to add Uconn and Rutgers it would just be about further securing the NYC market and getting two schools with strong academics who aren't really a threat to the schools that run the conference in football.  We really bring nothing to the ACC that it doesn't already have.  If the SEC plucks out FSU I Think we have a great shot but outside of that scenario I think we don't bring enough to the table that makes up for us hurting the schools that are already in the conference.  I hope I'm wrong but that's how i see it.  

research we are ranked ahead of at least half the acc including UConn, rutgers and cuse. this seems to be the big thing in big 10 as they are all AAU members.

UNC might want to travel to central florida to in fact improve their recruiting.teams do this by playing in front of recruits and their families on road trips.

FSU and miami are dominated by the gators and the sec in central florida. they have little to no presence. if they wanted to start a network we would be huge in capturing the entire state.

and anybody who thinks rutgers, uconn, or syracuse carry the nyc market has never been there.

Research isn't the end all be all of academics so we do have that card to pull but our overall academic profile is not impressive in the least.  

UNC already is pulling kids out of central Florida and has pulled kids out of schools like Armwood in the past few years so they don't have a problem with their FL presence as far as recruiting goes.  Same for all of the ACC Schools since the ACC has a strong rep amongst prospects and high school coaches in FL.  It's not SEC strong but in FL, really what other conference is?

If you look at the fan numbers posted in the NYT article when you combine FSU and UM in the state its a very big presence and certainly enough make it a strong chip in TV negotiations.  

As for Cuse RU, and Uconn they don't carry the NYC market separately but when combined you are going to have their games on in NYC and their conbined presence in NYC makes that market pretty secure for negotiations.  No one team will ever own the NYC market but when you combine those schools you pretty much have Jersey, Connecticut and the state of NYC well covered which is a ton of eyeballs, and more importantly new eyeballs, for TV negotiations.  

research is HUGE. that's why the big ten just about requires AAU membership. that's a quantifiable measure unlike us news subjective rankings of opinions.

NYT also says we have over 500k fans. that's over 60% of FSU and we are in our 14th year. that would help lock the acc channel in this state.

rutgers, syracuse(private school0 and uconn don't touch nyc market. I don't care what you think. they will have no pull when it comes to getting an acc channel on it's cable networks. usf will help miami and fsu solidify this state.

Just 500k? How many alumni are there right now, play family members, etc.. Sounds low.

I can't remember exactly but it's linked like 5 pages back....FSU was at like 800k. that's pretty good for us considering how young the program is

I won't re-post all the data here, but it's all in the other thread

http://thebullspen.com/index.php?topic=82179.0;all

[tampabull]

The North Carolina schools (who pretty much run the conference) won't want us because of our academics and the fact that we will cut even further into their recruiting in FL.  Miami won't want us there because we are already making up ground against them without being in a conference that is perceived as just as good as the ACC so we will really hurt them once we are in the same conference and the NCAA slaps them down with big time penalties.  FSU could go either way but I just don't see how having a 3rd ACC team from FL helps them in any way to realistically argue for our addition.  AS far as our market I think between FSU and Miami the ACC already has a big time presence in the state of FL so really it's just over saturation.  This is why Cuse and Pitt were added, new markets, Pennsylvania is a solid talent producing state to boot.  If they were to add Uconn and Rutgers it would just be about further securing the NYC market and getting two schools with strong academics who aren't really a threat to the schools that run the conference in football.  We really bring nothing to the ACC that it doesn't already have.  If the SEC plucks out FSU I Think we have a great shot but outside of that scenario I think we don't bring enough to the table that makes up for us hurting the schools that are already in the conference.  I hope I'm wrong but that's how i see it.  

research we are ranked ahead of at least half the acc including UConn, rutgers and cuse. this seems to be the big thing in big 10 as they are all AAU members.

UNC might want to travel to central florida to in fact improve their recruiting.teams do this by playing in front of recruits and their families on road trips.

FSU and miami are dominated by the gators and the sec in central florida. they have little to no presence. if they wanted to start a network we would be huge in capturing the entire state.

and anybody who thinks rutgers, uconn, or syracuse carry the nyc market has never been there.

Research isn't the end all be all of academics so we do have that card to pull but our overall academic profile is not impressive in the least.  

UNC already is pulling kids out of central Florida and has pulled kids out of schools like Armwood in the past few years so they don't have a problem with their FL presence as far as recruiting goes.  Same for all of the ACC Schools since the ACC has a strong rep amongst prospects and high school coaches in FL.  It's not SEC strong but in FL, really what other conference is?

If you look at the fan numbers posted in the NYT article when you combine FSU and UM in the state its a very big presence and certainly enough make it a strong chip in TV negotiations.  

As for Cuse RU, and Uconn they don't carry the NYC market separately but when combined you are going to have their games on in NYC and their conbined presence in NYC makes that market pretty secure for negotiations.  No one team will ever own the NYC market but when you combine those schools you pretty much have Jersey, Connecticut and the state of NYC well covered which is a ton of eyeballs, and more importantly new eyeballs, for TV negotiations.  

research is HUGE. that's why the big ten just about requires AAU membership. that's a quantifiable measure unlike us news subjective rankings of opinions.

NYT also says we have over 500k fans. that's over 60% of FSU and we are in our 14th year. that would help lock the acc channel in this state.

rutgers, syracuse(private school0 and uconn don't touch nyc market. I don't care what you think. they will have no pull when it comes to getting an acc channel on it's cable networks. usf will help miami and fsu solidify this state.

Also opinions and image are just as important in this game.  We are viewed as the 4th best institution in a academically weak state and that's a big problem.  You have the North Carolina block and UVA that will not want to be associated with a school with that kind of rep.  Remember these are people voting, people with egos, images, and reputations to uphold and defend. Penetrating these kind of networks and changing their perception of a school like USF is a uphill battle that we don't have the ammo to win at this point and time.    

You just keep mentioning FSU but this isn't just about FSU its about FSU and UM already giving the ACC a large presences in the state.  The two fan bases combined are larger than the the numbers they reported for Florida.  This gives the ACC the largest entity in the state in fan numbers.  So with that said why would a school like Miami who is about to slapped hard with sanctions want to take away one of the biggest advantages they have over USF who is already closing ground on them?  On a smaller scale this is a problem with FSU as well.  Why elevate USF who will ultimately become more attractive to recruits when you and UM already give the ACC a massive presence in the state?  This also doesn't mention how much more attractive USF would come to FL kids who end up a places like Clemson, the NC Schools, or Va tech?  

Dude. One thing, its Florida. Second, USF continues to move upward academically.

http://news.usf.edu/article/templates/?a=2606

"The University of South Florida is ranked 16th as an ‘Up-and-Comer' among the country's national universities in the 2011 edition of U.S. News & World Report's Best Colleges edition. USF is included in three lists in the new publication of exclusive rankings of more than 1,400 schools. USF ranks in ‘Best National Universities,' ‘Up-and-Comers,' and ‘A-Plus Schools for B Students' lists. "

i think this is last years.  i saw a link may have been here were we are number 8 up and comer.

[Mama_Bull]

The North Carolina schools (who pretty much run the conference) won't want us because of our academics and the fact that we will cut even further into their recruiting in FL.  Miami won't want us there because we are already making up ground against them without being in a conference that is perceived as just as good as the ACC so we will really hurt them once we are in the same conference and the NCAA slaps them down with big time penalties.  FSU could go either way but I just don't see how having a 3rd ACC team from FL helps them in any way to realistically argue for our addition.  AS far as our market I think between FSU and Miami the ACC already has a big time presence in the state of FL so really it's just over saturation.  This is why Cuse and Pitt were added, new markets, Pennsylvania is a solid talent producing state to boot.  If they were to add Uconn and Rutgers it would just be about further securing the NYC market and getting two schools with strong academics who aren't really a threat to the schools that run the conference in football.  We really bring nothing to the ACC that it doesn't already have.  If the SEC plucks out FSU I Think we have a great shot but outside of that scenario I think we don't bring enough to the table that makes up for us hurting the schools that are already in the conference.  I hope I'm wrong but that's how i see it.  

research we are ranked ahead of at least half the acc including UConn, rutgers and cuse. this seems to be the big thing in big 10 as they are all AAU members.

UNC might want to travel to central florida to in fact improve their recruiting.teams do this by playing in front of recruits and their families on road trips.

FSU and miami are dominated by the gators and the sec in central florida. they have little to no presence. if they wanted to start a network we would be huge in capturing the entire state.

and anybody who thinks rutgers, uconn, or syracuse carry the nyc market has never been there.

Research isn't the end all be all of academics so we do have that card to pull but our overall academic profile is not impressive in the least.  

UNC already is pulling kids out of central Florida and has pulled kids out of schools like Armwood in the past few years so they don't have a problem with their FL presence as far as recruiting goes.  Same for all of the ACC Schools since the ACC has a strong rep amongst prospects and high school coaches in FL.  It's not SEC strong but in FL, really what other conference is?

If you look at the fan numbers posted in the NYT article when you combine FSU and UM in the state its a very big presence and certainly enough make it a strong chip in TV negotiations.  

As for Cuse RU, and Uconn they don't carry the NYC market separately but when combined you are going to have their games on in NYC and their conbined presence in NYC makes that market pretty secure for negotiations.  No one team will ever own the NYC market but when you combine those schools you pretty much have Jersey, Connecticut and the state of NYC well covered which is a ton of eyeballs, and more importantly new eyeballs, for TV negotiations.  

research is HUGE. that's why the big ten just about requires AAU membership. that's a quantifiable measure unlike us news subjective rankings of opinions.

NYT also says we have over 500k fans. that's over 60% of FSU and we are in our 14th year. that would help lock the acc channel in this state.

rutgers, syracuse(private school0 and uconn don't touch nyc market. I don't care what you think. they will have no pull when it comes to getting an acc channel on it's cable networks. usf will help miami and fsu solidify this state.

Also opinions and image are just as important in this game.  We are viewed as the 4th best institution in a academically weak state and that's a big problem.  You have the North Carolina block and UVA that will not want to be associated with a school with that kind of rep.  Remember these are people voting, people with egos, images, and reputations to uphold and defend. Penetrating these kind of networks and changing their perception of a school like USF is a uphill battle that we don't have the ammo to win at this point and time.    

You just keep mentioning FSU but this isn't just about FSU its about FSU and UM already giving the ACC a large presences in the state.  The two fan bases combined are larger than the the numbers they reported for Florida.  This gives the ACC the largest entity in the state in fan numbers.  So with that said why would a school like Miami who is about to slapped hard with sanctions want to take away one of the biggest advantages they have over USF who is already closing ground on them?  On a smaller scale this is a problem with FSU as well.  Why elevate USF who will ultimately become more attractive to recruits when you and UM already give the ACC a massive presence in the state?  This also doesn't mention how much more attractive USF would come to FL kids who end up a places like Clemson, the NC Schools, or Va tech?  

Dude. One thing, its Florida. Second, USF continues to move upward academically.

http://news.usf.edu/article/templates/?a=2606

"The University of South Florida is ranked 16th as an ‘Up-and-Comer' among the country's national universities in the 2011 edition of U.S. News & World Report's Best Colleges edition. USF is included in three lists in the new publication of exclusive rankings of more than 1,400 schools. USF ranks in ‘Best National Universities,' ‘Up-and-Comers,' and ‘A-Plus Schools for B Students' lists. "

That's already from last year. THIS year we are #8 up and coming and moved up two spots from #183 to #181. We should move up again next year with our substantial increase in SAT/ACT and GPA. Biggest thing holding us back is poor student facluty ratio because of the budget crunch. The State makes sure that UF and FSU aren't hit nearly as hard.

[USFresh]

Of course news like this doesn't help. http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/bulls/content/season-ticket-sales-down-6-percent-usf-football

SEPTEMBER 20, 2011

Season ticket sales down 6 percent for USF football

USF football's season ticket sales for 2011 finished down about 6 percent from 2010, with 22,211 total season tickets distributed, about 1,200 less than last season.

The Bulls sold 18,967 season tickets, according to executive associate athletic director Bill McGillis, with another 3,244 allotted for staff use, spirit squads and trade with sponsors. Last year, those totals were 20,236 sold and another 3,228 used for a total of 23,464.

McGillis said there were strong gains in a few key areas -- group sales are at four times what they were a year ago, and single-ticket sales have more than doubled through USF's first two home games (against Ball State and Florida A&M). Of the decrease of 1,269 sold season tickets from a year ago, McGillis said that 366 season tickets from 2010 were sold through a special promotion with Groupon.com, so those weren't directly renewable.

Is Greg serious?????  Perfect timing.  What is he thinking?

Ooops, I pissed greg off.

The point is, USF is fighting for its football programs life right now and why add cast a negative light on them, right now?  I understand your article, i just don't understand the timing.  We need everybody in the Tampa community rallying around us.  I think you normally do a great job, I just don't understand the timing when there are other articles you could be writing which cast us as a positive addition to another conference.  Believe me, the web is going crazy right now over the conference shakeup and there are a lot of people following every singe story that is released.

Louis

On Sep 20, 2011, at 4:19 PM, auman@sptimes.com wrote:

Do you think a league will learn season tickets are down 6 percent and it will change their mind about inviting the Bulls? Seriously?

Greg

----- Original Message -----

From: Louis Smithson [louis.smithson@gmail.com]

Sent: 09/20/2011 04:17 PM AST

To: Greg Auman

Subject: Seriously?

Can you not release articles that cast a negative light upon our program at such an unstable time in college football?  Who's side are you on?  Jeez

[mikeybull]

Of course news like this doesn't help. http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/bulls/content/season-ticket-sales-down-6-percent-usf-football

SEPTEMBER 20, 2011

Season ticket sales down 6 percent for USF football

USF football's season ticket sales for 2011 finished down about 6 percent from 2010, with 22,211 total season tickets distributed, about 1,200 less than last season.

The Bulls sold 18,967 season tickets, according to executive associate athletic director Bill McGillis, with another 3,244 allotted for staff use, spirit squads and trade with sponsors. Last year, those totals were 20,236 sold and another 3,228 used for a total of 23,464.

McGillis said there were strong gains in a few key areas -- group sales are at four times what they were a year ago, and single-ticket sales have more than doubled through USF's first two home games (against Ball State and Florida A&M). Of the decrease of 1,269 sold season tickets from a year ago, McGillis said that 366 season tickets from 2010 were sold through a special promotion with Groupon.com, so those weren't directly renewable.

Is Greg serious?????  Perfect timing.  What is he thinking?

Ooops, I pissed greg off.

The point is, USF is fighting for its football programs life right now and why add cast a negative light on them, right now?  I understand your article, i just don't understand the timing.  We need everybody in the Tampa community rallying around us.  I think you normally do a great job, I just don't understand the timing when there are other articles you could be writing which cast us as a positive addition to another conference.  Believe me, the web is going crazy right now over the conference shakeup and there are a lot of people following every singe story that is released.

Louis

On Sep 20, 2011, at 4:19 PM, auman@sptimes.com wrote:

Do you think a league will learn season tickets are down 6 percent and it will change their mind about inviting the Bulls? Seriously?

Greg

----- Original Message -----

From: Louis Smithson [louis.smithson@gmail.com]

Sent: 09/20/2011 04:17 PM AST

To: Greg Auman

Subject: Seriously?

Can you not release articles that cast a negative light upon our program at such an unstable time in college football?  Who's side are you on?  Jeez

Good... it was terrible timing.

[Who'sYourData?]

You hardly pissed him off.  I'm pretty sure he is amused that you think this would affect an invite.

[USFresh]

You hardly pissed him off.  I'm pretty sure he is amused that you think this would affect an invite.

obviously you're missing the point, mr. Moderator

[thatBULL]

He's doing his job and isn't trying to bash USF.  He covers us very well.  

He is reporting ticket sales, which we all constantly ask about.  

He said they are down 6%, but group sales 4 times as high and single games are double.  In this economy (without trying to really examine anything) that is probably an overall increase in paid attendance (not necessarily donations).  

To only be down 1269 season tickets isn't horrible as long as people are still buying.  And no conference is going to turn us down or accept us over 1200.  You probably just humored him.

[Bull94]

The North Carolina schools (who pretty much run the conference) won't want us because of our academics and the fact that we will cut even further into their recruiting in FL.  Miami won't want us there because we are already making up ground against them without being in a conference that is perceived as just as good as the ACC so we will really hurt them once we are in the same conference and the NCAA slaps them down with big time penalties.  FSU could go either way but I just don't see how having a 3rd ACC team from FL helps them in any way to realistically argue for our addition.  AS far as our market I think between FSU and Miami the ACC already has a big time presence in the state of FL so really it's just over saturation.  This is why Cuse and Pitt were added, new markets, Pennsylvania is a solid talent producing state to boot.  If they were to add Uconn and Rutgers it would just be about further securing the NYC market and getting two schools with strong academics who aren't really a threat to the schools that run the conference in football.  We really bring nothing to the ACC that it doesn't already have.  If the SEC plucks out FSU I Think we have a great shot but outside of that scenario I think we don't bring enough to the table that makes up for us hurting the schools that are already in the conference.  I hope I'm wrong but that's how i see it.  

research we are ranked ahead of at least half the acc including UConn, rutgers and cuse. this seems to be the big thing in big 10 as they are all AAU members.

UNC might want to travel to central florida to in fact improve their recruiting.teams do this by playing in front of recruits and their families on road trips.

FSU and miami are dominated by the gators and the sec in central florida. they have little to no presence. if they wanted to start a network we would be huge in capturing the entire state.

and anybody who thinks rutgers, uconn, or syracuse carry the nyc market has never been there.

Research isn't the end all be all of academics so we do have that card to pull but our overall academic profile is not impressive in the least.  

UNC already is pulling kids out of central Florida and has pulled kids out of schools like Armwood in the past few years so they don't have a problem with their FL presence as far as recruiting goes.  Same for all of the ACC Schools since the ACC has a strong rep amongst prospects and high school coaches in FL.  It's not SEC strong but in FL, really what other conference is?

If you look at the fan numbers posted in the NYT article when you combine FSU and UM in the state its a very big presence and certainly enough make it a strong chip in TV negotiations.  

As for Cuse RU, and Uconn they don't carry the NYC market separately but when combined you are going to have their games on in NYC and their conbined presence in NYC makes that market pretty secure for negotiations.  No one team will ever own the NYC market but when you combine those schools you pretty much have Jersey, Connecticut and the state of NYC well covered which is a ton of eyeballs, and more importantly new eyeballs, for TV negotiations.  

research is HUGE. that's why the big ten just about requires AAU membership. that's a quantifiable measure unlike us news subjective rankings of opinions.

NYT also says we have over 500k fans. that's over 60% of FSU and we are in our 14th year. that would help lock the acc channel in this state.

rutgers, syracuse(private school0 and uconn don't touch nyc market. I don't care what you think. they will have no pull when it comes to getting an acc channel on it's cable networks. usf will help miami and fsu solidify this state.

Also opinions and image are just as important in this game.  We are viewed as the 4th best institution in a academically weak state and that's a big problem.  You have the North Carolina block and UVA that will not want to be associated with a school with that kind of rep.  Remember these are people voting, people with egos, images, and reputations to uphold and defend. Penetrating these kind of networks and changing their perception of a school like USF is a uphill battle that we don't have the ammo to win at this point and time.    

You just keep mentioning FSU but this isn't just about FSU its about FSU and UM already giving the ACC a large presences in the state.  The two fan bases combined are larger than the the numbers they reported for Florida.  This gives the ACC the largest entity in the state in fan numbers.  So with that said why would a school like Miami who is about to slapped hard with sanctions want to take away one of the biggest advantages they have over USF who is already closing ground on them?  On a smaller scale this is a problem with FSU as well.  Why elevate USF who will ultimately become more attractive to recruits when you and UM already give the ACC a massive presence in the state?  This also doesn't mention how much more attractive USF would come to FL kids who end up a places like Clemson, the NC Schools, or Va tech?  

I agree to disagree. You believe USF has no redeeming qualities when it comes to the ACC and i feel we offer more than those being hinted at like uconn,wvu or rutgers.

top 30 research

top 15 tv market(that is not locked up)

top 3 recruiting grounds

I don't care what the us news and world report says. Do you even know how they come to their conclusions? It's a joke really. Nothing more than a survey and some other incidental info.

You might not think highly of USF but we are a pretty **** good research school. that is a fact that can't be denied. have you ever heard the term research triangle? that's in north carolina i believe. in fact we are top 30. sure our undergrad sin't anything to write home about but those eggheads don't care about undergrad as much.

like i said if ND gets an invite then i feel they would be willing to take a shot with us. we are far better at research than even ND and most definitely wvu, uconn, and rutgers. we have better tv markets than all of them and better recruiting grounds. I know it's all specualtion but logic says we are a viable candidate.