Article by Martin Fennelly from the Tampa Tribune....

[Guest nybullsfan]

$$$$ = *****

Did you write a word to the right of the equal sign?

I think he meant "more dollars" brings "more stars"

[Triple B]

$$$$ = *****

Did you write a word to the right of the equal sign?

I think he meant "more dollars" brings "more stars"

:Duh

[CRBULL]

coaching is important, of course

rankings can be somewhat skewed to the bigger programs

but in general, the better known programs have a better shot at landing the more highly rated kids. THe only way we have ever gotten around that was taking chances on kids who were close to not qualifying, and waiting for them to come through Juco- or getting transfers-- or the occasional kid who was overlooked who became a whale of a player.

The problem is that Holtz doesn't have the ties with the state programs as deep as our old staff did have-- and it takes time to re-establish those ties. So to me, that is almost expected that we would not be killing it with recruiting right out of the box with Holtz.

Even if we had the same staff here as before-- we would struggle getting the more widely known recruits-- it is just the way it is. USF is not a prime destination for the elite recruits of the nation-- it is a fact. It shouldn't even be that shocking.

Holtz will get recruits of the same range and talent that Leavitt landed, sometimes better when we were playing better and a hotter team to pick as where they wanted to go. The key is for his staff to do a great job of evaluating recruits and fitting the pieces together so we can get the success needed to improve our image with future recruits.

that isn't happening overnight folks

I agree. And to expand on the ties to the schools comment, it matters how long the position and head coach have been in contact with the kids to establish a relationship. Even though Holtz & co. wrapped up the 2010 recruiting class, these 2011 targets have known Holtz less than a year... The 2011 local recruits, especially the high profile ones, have had the FL and top out of state programs in their ear since they were freshmen. As long as Holtz continues to improve things I think we'll see a slight improvement in the 2012 class, and the biggest impact in the 2013 (not next year's class, but the year after) class forward. The 2013 kids will have known Holtz's staff since they were underclassmen and had a chance to establish as good a relationship as the other programs going after them.

[CousinRicky]

coaching is important, of course

rankings can be somewhat skewed to the bigger programs

but in general, the better known programs have a better shot at landing the more highly rated kids. THe only way we have ever gotten around that was taking chances on kids who were close to not qualifying, and waiting for them to come through Juco- or getting transfers-- or the occasional kid who was overlooked who became a whale of a player.

The problem is that Holtz doesn't have the ties with the state programs as deep as our old staff did have-- and it takes time to re-establish those ties. So to me, that is almost expected that we would not be killing it with recruiting right out of the box with Holtz.

Even if we had the same staff here as before-- we would struggle getting the more widely known recruits-- it is just the way it is. USF is not a prime destination for the elite recruits of the nation-- it is a fact. It shouldn't even be that shocking.

Holtz will get recruits of the same range and talent that Leavitt landed, sometimes better when we were playing better and a hotter team to pick as where they wanted to go. The key is for his staff to do a great job of evaluating recruits and fitting the pieces together so we can get the success needed to improve our image with future recruits.

that isn't happening overnight folks

I agree. And to expand on the ties to the schools comment, it matters how long the position and head coach have been in contact with the kids to establish a relationship. Even though Holtz & co. wrapped up the 2010 recruiting class, these 2011 targets have known Holtz less than a year... The 2011 local recruits, especially the high profile ones, have had the FL and top out of state programs in their ear since they were freshmen. As long as Holtz continues to improve things I think we'll see a slight improvement in the 2012 class, and the biggest impact in the 2013 (not next year's class, but the year after) class forward. The 2013 kids will have known Holtz's staff since they were underclassmen and had a chance to establish as good a relationship as the other programs going after them.

Great.  Just what we need.  A guy that makes sense and has realistic expectations.  Turn in your Bullspen membership on the way out.

[beastiebull]

coaching is important, of course

rankings can be somewhat skewed to the bigger programs

but in general, the better known programs have a better shot at landing the more highly rated kids. THe only way we have ever gotten around that was taking chances on kids who were close to not qualifying, and waiting for them to come through Juco- or getting transfers-- or the occasional kid who was overlooked who became a whale of a player.

The problem is that Holtz doesn't have the ties with the state programs as deep as our old staff did have-- and it takes time to re-establish those ties. So to me, that is almost expected that we would not be killing it with recruiting right out of the box with Holtz.

Even if we had the same staff here as before-- we would struggle getting the more widely known recruits-- it is just the way it is. USF is not a prime destination for the elite recruits of the nation-- it is a fact. It shouldn't even be that shocking.

Holtz will get recruits of the same range and talent that Leavitt landed, sometimes better when we were playing better and a hotter team to pick as where they wanted to go. The key is for his staff to do a great job of evaluating recruits and fitting the pieces together so we can get the success needed to improve our image with future recruits.

that isn't happening overnight folks

I agree. And to expand on the ties to the schools comment, it matters how long the position and head coach have been in contact with the kids to establish a relationship. Even though Holtz & co. wrapped up the 2010 recruiting class, these 2011 targets have known Holtz less than a year... The 2011 local recruits, especially the high profile ones, have had the FL and top out of state programs in their ear since they were freshmen. As long as Holtz continues to improve things I think we'll see a slight improvement in the 2012 class, and the biggest impact in the 2013 (not next year's class, but the year after) class forward. The 2013 kids will have known Holtz's staff since they were underclassmen and had a chance to establish as good a relationship as the other programs going after them.

Great.  Just what we need.  A guy that makes sense and has realistic expectations.  Turn in your Bullspen membership on the way out.

Disagree.  Holtz has never drastically improved the recruiting of any team he has coached from year to year.  You have nothing upon which  to base any assertion that recruiting will drastically improve.  He is not a good recruiter.  Some guys have it and some don't.  He don't.

[CRBULL]

coaching is important, of course

rankings can be somewhat skewed to the bigger programs

but in general, the better known programs have a better shot at landing the more highly rated kids. THe only way we have ever gotten around that was taking chances on kids who were close to not qualifying, and waiting for them to come through Juco- or getting transfers-- or the occasional kid who was overlooked who became a whale of a player.

The problem is that Holtz doesn't have the ties with the state programs as deep as our old staff did have-- and it takes time to re-establish those ties. So to me, that is almost expected that we would not be killing it with recruiting right out of the box with Holtz.

Even if we had the same staff here as before-- we would struggle getting the more widely known recruits-- it is just the way it is. USF is not a prime destination for the elite recruits of the nation-- it is a fact. It shouldn't even be that shocking.

Holtz will get recruits of the same range and talent that Leavitt landed, sometimes better when we were playing better and a hotter team to pick as where they wanted to go. The key is for his staff to do a great job of evaluating recruits and fitting the pieces together so we can get the success needed to improve our image with future recruits.

that isn't happening overnight folks

I agree. And to expand on the ties to the schools comment, it matters how long the position and head coach have been in contact with the kids to establish a relationship. Even though Holtz & co. wrapped up the 2010 recruiting class, these 2011 targets have known Holtz less than a year... The 2011 local recruits, especially the high profile ones, have had the FL and top out of state programs in their ear since they were freshmen. As long as Holtz continues to improve things I think we'll see a slight improvement in the 2012 class, and the biggest impact in the 2013 (not next year's class, but the year after) class forward. The 2013 kids will have known Holtz's staff since they were underclassmen and had a chance to establish as good a relationship as the other programs going after them.

Great.  Just what we need.  A guy that makes sense and has realistic expectations.  Turn in your Bullspen membership on the way out.

Disagree.  Holtz has never drastically improved the recruiting of any team he has coached from year to year.   You have nothing upon which  to base any assertion that recruiting will drastically improve.  He is not a good recruiter.  Some guys have it and some don't.  He don't.

Has anyone told you that you come across as a little argumentative? Something tells me that might be what you're going for, though.

I didn't say "drastic" or any quantitative variation of that. We're talking relative terms here. My assertion was simply: relative to where things stand now, based on the previously stated, the fruition of Holtz's impact on recruiting will be in 2013.

Getting into quantification, I personally believe that someone with the personality of Holtz and the positive selling points of the university and the BCS conference it's in could maintain regular recruiting classes of at least the caliber of 2009 if not slightly higher.

I'm wondering about your statement on Holtz not improving the recruiting of the teams he has coached and how much research you've done on that to back that claim. Not that I'm familiar, but just glancing at Scout seems to indicate improvement. Are you basing that on him not having a reputation for recruiting?

[BDYZR]

$$$$ = *****

Did you write a word to the right of the equal sign?

That's the best I could do for stars.

[Triple B]

$$$$ = *****

Did you write a word to the right of the equal sign?

That's the best I could do for stars.

Yeah, ny enlightened me .... It was just on another post someone did type a word that came out as stars even to those with filter off and thought there may be a glitch somewhere.

[Apis Bull]

FWIW, ECU recruiting rankings according to Scout for the 5 years Skip was there:

2005 - 84th

2006 - 64th

2007 - 72nd

2008 - 93rd

2009 - 86th

[MikeG]

FWIW, ECU recruiting rankings according to Scout for the 5 years Skip was there:

2005 - 84th

2006 - 64th

2007 - 72nd

2008 - 93rd

2009 - 86th

not that I am arguing that Holtz is a great recruiter-- but keep in mind that ECU is CUSA, not a BCS school. So the rankings and type of players they attract will generally fall into that range regardless of how amazing a recruiter you are. No awesome recruits are trying to get onto a non-BCS team unless they have some sort of problems-- like grades or trouble or family issues that have them wanting to stay close to home.

Even after our best seasons, we struggled to have greatly ranked recruiting classes-- whether that was a rating system skewed from giving higher rankings to lesser conferences or just the fact that we don't attract top flight recruits, the bottom line is we shouldn't worry about this type of stuff until we show up on the field, win a conference championship or two, and consistently start beating the bigger programs. Even then we will face a challenge to bring in the best recruits in the state.

Also-- for those who think we are stealing recruits from UF, FSU etc-- umm-- maybe once or twice that was the case. And in those cases, the guys failed qualify-- so there were underlying reasons why those guys committed to USF.