Article by Martin Fennelly from the Tampa Tribune....

[Bull94]

FWIW, ECU recruiting rankings according to Scout for the 5 years Skip was there:

2005 - 84th

2006 - 64th

2007 - 72nd

2008 - 93rd

2009 - 86th

not that I am arguing that Holtz is a great recruiter-- but keep in mind that ECU is CUSA, not a BCS school. So the rankings and type of players they attract will generally fall into that range regardless of how amazing a recruiter you are. No awesome recruits are trying to get onto a non-BCS team unless they have some sort of problems-- like grades or trouble or family issues that have them wanting to stay close to home.

Even after our best seasons, we struggled to have greatly ranked recruiting classes-- whether that was a rating system skewed from giving higher rankings to lesser conferences or just the fact that we don't attract top flight recruits, the bottom line is we shouldn't worry about this type of stuff until we show up on the field, win a conference championship or two, and consistently start beating the bigger programs. Even then we will face a challenge to bring in the best recruits in the state.

Also-- for those who think we are stealing recruits from UF, FSU etc-- umm-- maybe once or twice that was the case. And in those cases, the guys failed qualify-- so there were underlying reasons why those guys committed to USF.

we have quite a few good players on the roster that were offered by FSU (T Rex), UF (Giddins) and Miami (webster, barrington).

we can build a very nice roster with secondary players from not only the big three but schools such as Auburn, Clemson, UGA, etc.

[CRBULL]

FWIW, ECU recruiting rankings according to Scout for the 5 years Skip was there:

2005 - 84th

2006 - 64th

2007 - 72nd

2008 - 93rd

2009 - 86th

not that I am arguing that Holtz is a great recruiter-- but keep in mind that ECU is CUSA, not a BCS school. So the rankings and type of players they attract will generally fall into that range regardless of how amazing a recruiter you are. No awesome recruits are trying to get onto a non-BCS team unless they have some sort of problems-- like grades or trouble or family issues that have them wanting to stay close to home. 

Not only that, but even within CUSA some schools are better off than others (i.e. regardless of the staff's recruiting talent, ECU will not be able to pull in the same talent that say Houston or UCF would because of their recruiting bed and location.) I don't think we have enough info on Holtz, based on the locations he's been, to come to a solid conclusion.

However, here are some potential indicators we could consider:

- Above average personality, presence, and charisma

- How well he was able to mobilize the community and student base to support ECU

- If O'Leary can pull in a decent class at UCF one would think Holtz could do better for multiple reasons

Even after our best seasons, we struggled to have greatly ranked recruiting classes-- whether that was a rating system skewed from giving higher rankings to lesser conferences or just the fact that we don't attract top flight recruits, the bottom line is we shouldn't worry about this type of stuff until we show up on the field, win a conference championship or two, and consistently start beating the bigger programs. Even then we will face a challenge to bring in the best recruits in the state.

My thought on that is a delayed recruiting impact. I think the decent 2008 class and good 2009 class were a result of the 2006 momentum and 2007 season. The 2007 class, and to a lesser degree the 2008 class, had probably already identified their top picks and who they were listening to, but the 2009 class were only freshmen and then sophomores when the 2006 momentum and 2007 season probably opened their ears to the program.

[beastiebull]

coaching is important, of course

rankings can be somewhat skewed to the bigger programs

but in general, the better known programs have a better shot at landing the more highly rated kids. THe only way we have ever gotten around that was taking chances on kids who were close to not qualifying, and waiting for them to come through Juco- or getting transfers-- or the occasional kid who was overlooked who became a whale of a player.

The problem is that Holtz doesn't have the ties with the state programs as deep as our old staff did have-- and it takes time to re-establish those ties. So to me, that is almost expected that we would not be killing it with recruiting right out of the box with Holtz.

Even if we had the same staff here as before-- we would struggle getting the more widely known recruits-- it is just the way it is. USF is not a prime destination for the elite recruits of the nation-- it is a fact. It shouldn't even be that shocking.

Holtz will get recruits of the same range and talent that Leavitt landed, sometimes better when we were playing better and a hotter team to pick as where they wanted to go. The key is for his staff to do a great job of evaluating recruits and fitting the pieces together so we can get the success needed to improve our image with future recruits.

that isn't happening overnight folks

I agree. And to expand on the ties to the schools comment, it matters how long the position and head coach have been in contact with the kids to establish a relationship. Even though Holtz & co. wrapped up the 2010 recruiting class, these 2011 targets have known Holtz less than a year... The 2011 local recruits, especially the high profile ones, have had the FL and top out of state programs in their ear since they were freshmen. As long as Holtz continues to improve things I think we'll see a slight improvement in the 2012 class, and the biggest impact in the 2013 (not next year's class, but the year after) class forward. The 2013 kids will have known Holtz's staff since they were underclassmen and had a chance to establish as good a relationship as the other programs going after them.

Great.  Just what we need.  A guy that makes sense and has realistic expectations.  Turn in your Bullspen membership on the way out.

Disagree.  Holtz has never drastically improved the recruiting of any team he has coached from year to year.   You have nothing upon which  to base any assertion that recruiting will drastically improve.  He is not a good recruiter.  Some guys have it and some don't.  He don't.

Has anyone told you that you come across as a little argumentative? Something tells me that might be what you're going for, though.

I didn't say "drastic" or any quantitative variation of that. We're talking relative terms here. My assertion was simply: relative to where things stand now, based on the previously stated, the fruition of Holtz's impact on recruiting will be in 2013.

Getting into quantification, I personally believe that someone with the personality of Holtz and the positive selling points of the university and the BCS conference it's in could maintain regular recruiting classes of at least the caliber of 2009 if not slightly higher.

I'm wondering about your statement on Holtz not improving the recruiting of the teams he has coached and how much research you've done on that to back that claim. Not that I'm familiar, but just glancing at Scout seems to indicate improvement. Are you basing that on him not having a reputation for recruiting?

So do you. 

See his above recruiting rankings which prove my point.  He finished worse than he started.  He better win something with Leavitt's recruits or he ain't winning anything. 

/conversation. 

[CRBULL]

So do you. 

See his above recruiting rankings which prove my point.  He finished worse than he started.  He better win something with Leavitt's recruits or he ain't winning anything. 

/conversation. 

If you say so, but based on what was mentioned in the thread above it seems like that assertion is less likely than the opposite, though, given your supporting evidence thus far.

[beastiebull]

So do you. 

See his above recruiting rankings which prove my point.  He finished worse than he started.  He better win something with Leavitt's recruits or he ain't winning anything. 

/conversation. 

If you say so, but based on what was mentioned in the thread above it seems like that assertion is less likely than the opposite, though, given your supporting evidence thus far.

Im not sure what you're seeing to make you believe that however I'm sure the green and gold weed you're smoking may have something to do with it.  His recruiting rankings were lousy at ECU.  They never improved,. and they actually got worse over time.  He may have won in cusa with lousy recruiting however that won't fly in a BCS conference.  One thing to be lousy, another thing to never improve.  Last seasonn was the most talent we ever will on the field for usf s long as Holtz is coach.

[DRichtberg]

Let's look at a few of the 5star or just highly rated guys who have come to USF in the past...

Mike Ford, well that didn't work out so well.

Jamar Taylor, well that didn't work out so well.

I am drawing a blank on his name but the DT from Hillsborough HS, who went to JUCO first then USF and hardly if ever saw the field when it mattered.

I think Pierre-Paul, and T. Mitchell who are the only highly regarded recruits I can currently remember that were a good fit at USF. Now most of that was under a different staff, so time will tell, and I am going to give this staff its due time in recruiting. No excuses are accepted on the field however!

[Paisa el Toro]

I am drawing a blank on his name but the DT from Hillsborough HS, who went to JUCO first then USF and hardly if ever saw the field when it mattered.

Leslie Stirups. And I'd like to add Carlton Hill to that list as well.

[CRBULL]

So do you. 

See his above recruiting rankings which prove my point.  He finished worse than he started.  He better win something with Leavitt's recruits or he ain't winning anything. 

/conversation. 

If you say so, but based on what was mentioned in the thread above it seems like that assertion is less likely than the opposite, though, given your supporting evidence thus far.

Im not sure what you're seeing to make you believe that however I'm sure the green and gold weed you're smoking may have something to do with it.   His recruiting rankings were lousy at ECU.  They never improved,. and they actually got worse over time.  He may have won in cusa with lousy recruiting however that won't fly in a BCS conference.  One thing to be lousy, another thing to never improve.  Last seasonn was the most talent we ever will on the field for usf s long as Holtz is coach.

If you're basing your judgment on the Scout rankings while he was there you should consider what they were before he was there: 2004 - 73, 2003 - 81, 2002 - 81...about the same. Going back to the point on ECU's recruiting potential, that's what you would expect regardless of the coach unless he was extreme one way or the other.

Again, I'm not claiming that he will be a great recruiter here; I just don't think we have enough applicable info to come to a conclusion. I do, however, think there are more positive indicators than negative.

[jaym]

A better comparison were the rankings before and after he got to ECU.

[Triple B]

A better comparison were the rankings before and after he got to ECU.

An even better point is that he was able to take that "inferior" talent and beat teams with "superior" talent to win conference championships and upset some BCS teams ... THAT'S the bottom line.