Will USF fans have the patience with Skip . . .

[RickUSF]

Sorry, for a program that has always moved forward in one respect or another in every year of its existence, even in the losing year of 2004, I don't see a lot to like yet. A lot of talk and hype, but nothing concrete to point to yet.

that's what most you people dont realize.  we haven't "always moved forward".  for the past 4 years we've been spinning our wheels, tanking when the conference rolled around, and were forced to hear the excuses like "we don't have a full roster of BCS recruits, etc".

whether people believe it or not, it was one of the [unofficial] reasons CJL got canned.  if we were winning BE titles, no one would have ever questioned if he slapped a student or not.  its a results-based business in college football and the mediocre results let to his demise.

give it some time, and yes, as KBull stated, the team and the system has changed-- for the better.  we just aren't executing it (yet).  maybe the guys need more playing time or holtz needs to get his recruits in or both, but it's gonna take some time.

[Orlando Bull]

Sorry, for a program that has always moved forward in one respect or another in every year of its existence, even in the losing year of 2004, I don't see a lot to like yet. A lot of talk and hype, but nothing concrete to point to yet.

that's what most you people dont realize.  we haven't "always moved forward".  for the past 4 years we've been spinning our wheels, tanking when the conference rolled around, and were forced to hear the excuses like "we don't have a full roster of BCS recruits, etc".

whether people believe it or not, it was one of the [unofficial] reasons CJL got canned.  if we were winning BE titles, no one would have ever questioned if he slapped a student or not.  its a results-based business in college football and the mediocre results let to his demise.

give it some time, and yes, as KBull stated, the team and the system has changed-- for the better.  we just aren't executing it (yet).  maybe the guys need more playing time or holtz needs to get his recruits in or both, but it's gonna take some time.

If a win against FSU and all of the recruiting implications that has is not a step forward, then I have no idea what our fans are looking for.

As Brad has mentioned, the Big East is crap, yes, I want to win it, but, winning games against FSU/UM/UF are the way we get better recruits. That turns into bigger and better things than the Big East. We're not there, may never get there, but if we're not striving to win national championships, then what are we working for?

So, what helps us more, a win against FSU/Auburn, or, winning the Big East when no one has any respect for the conference anyway? Eventually, the recruits we get from the BIG wins would win a conference and go on to bigger and better things.

[usfgrad84]

I'll agree it was one of the reasons for him getting fired by I completely disagree we haven't moved forward. We went from a start-up to d1aa to d1 to conference affiliate to BCS conference to first bowl game to first bowl win to first ranking to #2 ranking to beating an FSU each was a new achievement. One more year of the same would have been grounds for firing, but each year was another achievement. There are 2 more shots to salvage the year. 1. Make a bowl 2. Beat Miami. Other than that its a huge step backward and I feel a bigger hole to dig out of.

[usfgrad84]

Here is a question for those in the "wait till Skip gets his recruits here" camp. How long are you patient for?  How many guys on the OL do we lose this year?  If we don't make the adjustments to play within BJs strengths and he can't pick up the system do you really believe a rs freshman or true freshman is the difference maker next year?  I think you are 3 or 4 years away. Does 2 years of no bowl games and crappy attendance allow you to get the better recruits?

I'm not saying there is any loss of confidence in Holtz ability and I believe he deserves the full tenure of his contract regardless of how the next 2 years go. My point is that he needs to find a way to win this year with this personnel because if he doesn't you are about to enter a dark age for USF football.

[RickUSF]

Sorry, for a program that has always moved forward in one respect or another in every year of its existence, even in the losing year of 2004, I don't see a lot to like yet. A lot of talk and hype, but nothing concrete to point to yet.

that's what most you people dont realize.  we haven't "always moved forward".  for the past 4 years we've been spinning our wheels, tanking when the conference rolled around, and were forced to hear the excuses like "we don't have a full roster of BCS recruits, etc".

whether people believe it or not, it was one of the [unofficial] reasons CJL got canned.  if we were winning BE titles, no one would have ever questioned if he slapped a student or not.  its a results-based business in college football and the mediocre results let to his demise.

give it some time, and yes, as KBull stated, the team and the system has changed-- for the better.  we just aren't executing it (yet).  maybe the guys need more playing time or holtz needs to get his recruits in or both, but it's gonna take some time.

If a win against FSU and all of the recruiting implications that has is not a step forward, then I have no idea what our fans are looking for.

As Brad has mentioned, the Big East is crap, yes, I want to win it, but, winning games against FSU/UM/UF are the way we get better recruits. That turns into bigger and better things than the Big East. We're not there, may never get there, but if we're not striving to win national championships, then what are we working for?

So, what helps us more, a win against FSU/Auburn, or, winning the Big East when no one has any respect for the conference anyway? Eventually, the recruits we get from the BIG wins would win a conference and go on to bigger and better things.

I disagree.  I will gladly trade in the wins vs. Kansas, Auburn, or FSU for conference titles.  Those are great and all for recognition, but our goal should be winning the Big East above all.  I'd be willing to adopt a system on offense or defense that doesn't do well against OOC BCS opponents like UMiami or UF if the system wins in conference.  I think the recruiting we get from those wins is a little overrated.  I think we have enough talent on our roster to win the Big East right now-- however, some of the talent isn't right fit for the system (e.g.-QB). 

OOC opponents like UF/FSU/UMiami come and go.. but our Big East opponents are here to stay.

[RickUSF]

Here is a question for those in the "wait till Skip gets his recruits here" camp. How long are you patient for?  How many guys on the OL do we lose this year?  If we don't make the adjustments to play within bj daniels strengths and he can't pick up the system do you really believe a rs freshman or true freshman is the difference maker next year?  I think you are 3 or 4 years away. Does 2 years of no bowl games and crappy attendance allow you to get the better recruits?

I'm not saying there is any loss of confidence in Holtz ability and I believe he deserves the full tenure of his contract regardless of how the next 2 years go. My point is that he needs to find a way to win this year with this personnel because if he doesn't you are about to enter a dark age for USF football.

As someone mentioned before, Nick Saban lost to UL Monroe his first year at Alabama.  Even in their darkest days, Bama still has more talent than UL Monroe.  A year later, he goes to the Sugar Bowl, then a year after that, they win the National Title.  I'm not saying Skip is anywhere near the caliber that Saban is, but it should prove to you that there is such thing as a transition period for coaching staffs.

[usfgrad84]

I agree that the goal is to win the big east, but in the state of Florida, to get to the next level your measuring stick is the big 3.  Anything less and you are percieved as a second tier school by the fns and more importantly the recruits.

[usfgrad84]

Comparing Alabama and Saban situation to USF is an absolutely ridiculous comparison. First of all Saban had already won a national championship more importantly Alabama is one of the most historically elite programs in the country. Even when they were having down years there was never a question of their ability to attract top recruits there is never a question that their attendace would still be strong. Even in our best year we struggle to bring in just 1 or 2 four star recruits. If we have a down year we are lucky to put 30,000 butts in the seats.

[Orlando Bull]

Rick, and others who share this view...

It's very small time thinking (UCF like) to say that all you care about is winning our mid level conference. If coach Holtz has this thinking, he needs to go. I want a program that can beat ANYONE that we step on the field against.

By your thinking, we go 8-4 or 9-3 every year and lose our BCS bowl every year until it's very obvious that the Big East isn't BCS worthy and we lose our automatic bid.

The team should be built to compete with the most elite teams in the land, in this state, it starts and stops with the "big 3". Beat them, and the recruiting will improve.

[RickUSF]

Rick, and others who share this view...

It's very small time thinking (UCF like) to say that all you care about is winning our mid level conference. If coach Holtz has this thinking, he needs to go. I want a program that can beat ANYONE that we step on the field against.

By your thinking, we go 8-4 or 9-3 every year and lose our BCS bowl every year until it's very obvious that the Big East isn't BCS worthy and we lose our automatic bid.

The team should be built to compete with the most elite teams in the land, in this state, it starts and stops with the "big 3". Beat them, and the recruiting will improve.

our MID LEVEL CONFERENCE?  we're in a BCS CONFERENCE!! HELLO!!  we win the big east, we go to a BCS game, and that is the best publicity you could give your program.  who gives a **** about the UF/FSU/UM's of the world.  you do realize that we can win national titles without having to play the "Big 3" right?  we take care of our CONFERENCE, we go to a BCS game, and thats more than what the gators can do (this year).

Those programs became what they are because they won CONFERENCE and NATIONAL TITLES.

you people are so preoccupied with catching up with big brother that you are completely missing the point of being in a BCS conference.  take care of the Rutgers, Pitt's, and Cincy's of the world, get to a BCS game, THEN recruiting will improve.  but as i see it now, our recruiting is good enough to win the conference.. we just need to put it all together.