The City Council Woman

[Guest guest]

We are talking apples and oranges again.

Public school cost more for about 10 zillion different reasons.

1.)  They provide transportation

2.)  They have compreshensive special ed

3.)  Administration is much larger

4.)  More facilitites so up keep is more expensive

5.)  Public schools pay their teachers more (yup its true)

Private schools do many things better, ie. disciplin, accountability, class size

Pubic schools also do lots of things better, ie. access, community involvement, special ed, higher quality teachers.

So I guess you're for the status quo?

1. I went to a private school and took a bus.

2. Is that why they only graduate 55% of their students?We also had a special ed program and had to do community service every semester so I'm not sure public schools are more involved in their community.

3. Administration is larger. this is part of the problem. too much government red tape. no one is held accountable.

4. more facilities?? less dolars per student and private schools have smaller class rooms and are more efficient.

5. Private schools pay less and get more results out of their teachers. this is an arguement for private schools being more efficient and doing a better job.

Sounds like you have more EXCUSES than our hoops team. I thought you weren't one for excuses.

Maybe you should reevaluate your thought process.

[Triple B]

These last three pages need to be moved to the Mad Cow. We're straying from the fact that Rose is a clueless tart .......

[WoolyBully]

This is all I will say because I am too emotional about this subject and it's way off topic....1. Obviously both Ari and Rueben have NEVER been teachers and can only speak as an outsider. 2. I agree something needs to be done about our school system, however making a pay for performance is NOT the answer!  You would be punishing the teachers who have children in their class that are slow learners, have learning disabilities, etc.  The staffing process in place takes forever to have a child tested and diagnosed with a learning problem, then if the child even does qualify, parents still have to agree to the special classes.  So if a child is in your room and doesn't score well on a test due to a learning disability, you're telling me it's the teacher's fault and they should be penalized.-OK NOT a good idea, you'll lose more teachers. 3. Pay- you're telling me that a teacher who works in a poorer neighborhood works harder and should therefore earn 50% more??  Oh really, come do my job for a day!!!  I have the BEST class I've ever had in my young career and I still come in at least 1/2 before teachers have to be here and I usually on a no meeting/training day go home an hour after the kids leave.  Some nights I don't get home until 8pm after a meeting or training.  So DON'T tell me teachers in poorer schools need more money than the rest of us....we ALL need a pay raise!!! 4.  Because I haven't gone back for my Master's degree does not make me any less of a teacher.  5. All teachers are paid on the same pay scale....the art teacher makes the same as the rest of us and should!!!  Art may be the only thing a child is really good at!!  OK, I'm done.  I will not rant again, even if I'm tempted to by the uniformed public.

Pay for performance will never work until I can fire a teacher for being a slug. Way too much carrot...not enough stick.  You gotta admit...there's a lot of folks who rolled out of bed on graduation day with a degree in *ology and realized...dang...I need a job. Having spent 16 years in school...NO REASON TO STOP NOW! I'll just go into teaching!.

And not all of our precious little offspring are given the same quality of gray matter.  As Judge Smails once opined..."America needs ditch diggers too". But for some strange reason we seem to think that everyone who takes a breath is university bound.  A little bit of Europa would go a long way here in America.

[Guest rueben_horowitz]

This is all I will say because I am too emotional about this subject and it's way off topic....1. Obviously both Ari and Rueben have NEVER been teachers and can only speak as an outsider. 2. I agree something needs to be done about our school system, however making a pay for performance is NOT the answer!  You would be punishing the teachers who have children in their class that are slow learners, have learning disabilities, etc.  The staffing process in place takes forever to have a child tested and diagnosed with a learning problem, then if the child even does qualify, parents still have to agree to the special classes.  So if a child is in your room and doesn't score well on a test due to a learning disability, you're telling me it's the teacher's fault and they should be penalized.-OK NOT a good idea, you'll lose more teachers. 3. Pay- you're telling me that a teacher who works in a poorer neighborhood works harder and should therefore earn 50% more??  Oh really, come do my job for a day!!!  I have the BEST class I've ever had in my young career and I still come in at least 1/2 before teachers have to be here and I usually on a no meeting/training day go home an hour after the kids leave.  Some nights I don't get home until 8pm after a meeting or training.  So DON'T tell me teachers in poorer schools need more money than the rest of us....we ALL need a pay raise!!! 4.  Because I haven't gone back for my Master's degree does not make me any less of a teacher.  5. All teachers are paid on the same pay scale....the art teacher makes the same as the rest of us and should!!!  Art may be the only thing a child is really good at!!  OK, I'm done.  I will not rant again, even if I'm tempted to by the uniformed public.

1) You're right, I've never been a teacher.

2) My pay for performance was not based on student performance, it is based on teaching knowledge. i.e. - You should be payed for your knowledge of the subject you teach, which is why I support testing teachers regularly.

3) I agree. I don't think teacher pay scales should consider geography

4) I think a teacher with her masters degree is more qualified. I understand your argument though, and as I stated above, you should prove your point through regular testing.

5) I don't think art teachers are as valuable as math and science teachers. Math can be taught, art is more of a talent imo. After all my years in art and math classes I still  can't draw a straight line, but I can solve complex calculus formulas and hammer out discrete probabilities.

Just a humble opinion from an outsider. I commend your work Bubbles, and am sorry this thread is so personal to you. Someday you'll thank people like me for paying you more and raising the FL education system from the basement.

This is about the kids,

Rueben

[Knight_Light]

Pay for performance will never work until I can fire a teacher for being a slug. Way too much carrot...not enough stick.  You gotta admit...there's a lot of folks who rolled out of bed on graduation day with a degree in *ology and realized...dang...I need a job. Having spent 16 years in school...NO REASON TO STOP NOW! I'll just go into teaching!.

And not all of our precious little offspring are given the same quality of gray matter.  As Judge Smails once opined..."America needs ditch diggers too". But for some strange reason we seem to think that everyone who takes a breath is university bound.  A little bit of Europa would go a long way here in America.

FYI...Many school districts in Colorado have a "pay for performance" system for Teachers...and the districts that have that...have HIGH scores...HIGH enrollment...GREAT Teachers...and HIGH Satisfaction.

Best friend in FLA was a principal...moved to Colorado...and LOVES it! (Mainly because of the poor quality of FLA Public Schools and lack of control)

She has COMPLETE control over all teachers under her..can give RAISES where deserved...and has top applicants trying to get into her school.

Just like it can help schools, competition and perfomance raises are good for teachers as well.

KL

[Guest Ari Hinkelberger]

So Reuben and the gang doesn't think that compensation should be based on the school you teach at.?  

So you think that a teacher should be paid the same amount of money to teach at Tampa Palms Elementary, then Robinson High in the hood.  Wow -- you guys are really smart.  

Just a little side note.  A guy who is going to be running for President and is probably kka 2-1 favorite to win, Mark Warner, gov of Virginia.  Instituted this plan in VA.  Got RAVE reviews.  Gives teachers a 15K bonus UP FRONT. to go teach in selected schools.  Says he doesn't understand a system that has the best and most devoted teachers not teaching were they are most needed.  I agree.

Now wonder the guy was one of the founders of NEXTEL.

[Guest BullsFans]

Compare college football coach's salaries to teacher's salaries....I think our system of values is in the toilet.

[Guest Ari Hinkelberger]

That's because only a few people can run the spread offense, and get A-Hall to 2000 career yards.....with our teaching standards 4 zillion people can teach high school english.

Its all economics my man.

I always laugh at the peopel who complain about athletes salaries.  If you can hit 330 and have 160 RBI's, they will pay you 20 million too.  

Nobody can do it, that is why its worth so much.

Ari Hinkelberger -- who knows that there is very little that basic economics can't explain.

[smazza]

you better honor yANKEES

STEINBRENNER GIVES TONS TO tamba bay community

[Markeymark]

An evil City Council woman?