QF Lovers, Bring It.

[Bull-Hornz]

 

 

 

If you are going to hold that drive against SB then you are just showing your colors IMO..

I think your use of numbers is selective and shows nothing of any real substance, so I provided comparable numbers to demonstrate that even under your metrics SB measures miserably. FWIW I don't think either of them are any good as it stands now, but I also don't think either is the sole cause of our problems.

Can you sincerely not understand how what you did is not equivalent? It seems to me that I put numbers up that those who disapprove of SB and every excuse under the sun is used including illogical statements like the one above.

We want to know who can win now let'slook at the last 5 most recent games...o your cherry picking

Ok let's look at a direct comparison when both played against FAMU...o that team sucks

Let's remove FAMU from the equation and see how QF has done the last two full games...your numbers have no substance...

It doesn't matter how you slice it QF right now is not better than SB.

 

 

You are arguing against a straw man, dude. Nobody is saying that QF is going to magically develop into a Heisman winner. You and several others are the ones that contend that the QB position is the reason we are losing, and given both QBs' miserable performances, there is no evidence to support that claim.

 

I fail to see where I have made that straw man arguement, so in fact you are making a straw man argument lol. Pls feel free to link it here my man.

 

I have not once laid the entire blame on QF, in fact I have praised what he is doing and the progress he has made. He has kept us in the first half of games with his dynamic ability in the backfield and others on the team have done him no favors. But same was true of SB against MD last year.  My argument has been and continues to be that SB has a legit reason to be given the same chance that QF has been given.  The numbers in fact do say that both QB's are below average, but one is better than the other and has games where he was above average WITHOUT the same opportunities that have been afford to MW or QF. Even still his numbers are better than both of them.

 

Give SB two-three weeks as starting QB give him the same change afforded to MW and QF. If he flops fine, let QF play the rest of the season. Looking at his numbers for the last five game suggests he has improved since PSU and could actually win us games. 

Edited September 21, 2015 by Bull-Hornz

[WWMJD]

One of many of your posts through the 17 pages of the "Start Bench!" thread:

 

Finally, look at [bench's numbers over the past 5 games]. If we can get this kind of production from the QB we will go bowling for sure! The TD to INT ratio should end any notion that he is a turn over machine. Further that avg passer rating for the last 5 games would put SB currently in the top 40 QBs of 2015. Those of us asking to "SEE" SB I believe are fully justified.

[Bull-Hornz]

One of many of your posts through the 17 pages of the "Start Bench!" thread:

Finally, look at [bench's numbers over the past 5 games]. If we can get this kind of production from the QB we will go bowling for sure! The TD to INT ratio should end any notion that he is a turn over machine. Further that avg passer rating for the last 5 games would put SB currently in the top 40 QBs of 2015. Those of us asking to "SEE" SB I believe are fully justified.

Yeah that is a great post isn't it Thanks for reposting...

Still not sure how that supports your straw man argument that QF is losing us games. That is just supporting my argument that I think SB is good enough to get a shot at QB and might win us games. See the differences? If we get a good lead QF has the type of game where we would might be able to grind out a win if our D is good enough.

[WWMJD]

You think if we subbed Bench in, we could go bowling, and that with QF in, we won't, right?  Is that not what you are saying on the other threads? If not maybe you should clarify.

[negron2002]

He could be a star playing in division III

[bullzfanatic]

 

One of many of your posts through the 17 pages of the "Start Bench!" thread:

Finally, look at [bench's numbers over the past 5 games]. If we can get this kind of production from the QB we will go bowling for sure! The TD to INT ratio should end any notion that he is a turn over machine. Further that avg passer rating for the last 5 games would put SB currently in the top 40 QBs of 2015. Those of us asking to "SEE" SB I believe are fully justified.

Yeah that is a great post isn't it Thanks for reposting...

Still not sure how that supports your straw man argument that QF is losing us games. That is just supporting my argument that I think SB is good enough to get a shot at QB and might win us games. See the differences? If we get a good lead QF has the type of game where we would might be able to grind out a win if our D is good enough.

 

As stated previously, our offense is too one dimensional. With the USF version of the read option, the only option is to run, unless someone is fully wide open down field. Taggart wants QF to win the game with his feet but as we've all seen, that is not going to happen when the defense always knows your running. 

 

Every defense we have played outside of FAMU just spy's the qb since they know we're not athletic enough at WR to beat them downfield. If we were we'd be playing 4 and 5 sets all day.The only way any qb beats a team with their feet is through improvisation. Daniels and Grothe went through their progressions and then made defenses pay with their athleticism if nothing was there. 

 

When QF is in, we don't throw enough and that pisses people off. Say what you want, but QF hasn't thrown even remotely enough for anyone to have an opinion on how good of a passer he is. However, QF has done a good job overall of protecting the ball while he's in. With SB in, we throw much more, but the kid has a gunslinger mentality which at times has lead to stupid stupid picks. He is a toss up, because when he plays his best, he can make some really nice throws. 

 

I'm in 100% agreement that SB and QF are not big threats at the position and it is hard to say one is the "better" option for this team. I just don't think it will matter who is in with the current play calling via Taggart. With that said, change the game plan by Memphis to feature some easy throws for SB and I'd be completely fine with him playing. I think he is plenty mobile enough for this system. However, I'd really like to see QF have the chance to throw the ball more. 

[Bullshiznitz]

 

 

If you are going to hold that drive against SB then you are just showing your colors IMO..

I think your use of numbers is selective and shows nothing of any real substance, so I provided comparable numbers to demonstrate that even under your metrics SB measures miserably. FWIW I don't think either of them are any good as it stands now, but I also don't think either is the sole cause of our problems.

Can you sincerely not understand how what you did is not equivalent? It seems to me that I put numbers up that those who disapprove of SB and every excuse under the sun is used including illogical statements like the one above.

We want to know who can win now let'slook at the last 5 most recent games...o your cherry picking

Ok let's look at a direct comparison when both played against FAMU...o that team sucks

Let's remove FAMU from the equation and see how QF has done the last two full games...your numbers have no substance...

It doesn't matter how you slice it QF right now is not better than SB.

 

 

Actually quit the opposite.  You talk about not being equivalent, yet you continue to try to use comparisons that are by no means equivalent.   

 

First you tried to go with the 5 most recent games.  For one, there was no reason to choose that many as QF hadn't played that many games at that point, and it was obvious you choose that as to not include Bench's miserable Maryland game from last year.  Even with that cherry picking, there was barely any difference in passing numbers.  

 

When this was pointed out, you moved the goalposts to 3 games.  But for one, appearance does not equal game.  You were comparing from Bench (5 min in the 4th quarter against Memphis, 9 min in the 4th quarter against UCF, and a little less than the whole second half of FAMU) vs Flowers (1st half against SMU, 1st half against FAMU, and whole game against FSU).  Even if we take FAMU as equivalent (which is a stretch), you were comparing a total of 14 min playing time (less than 1 quarter) for Bench against worn down prevent defenses to 1.5 games of Flowers verse starting defenses of SMU and top 10 FSU.  How is that remotely an equivalent comparison?  And even with this extreme cherry picking, the difference in numbers was marginal at best.  So in Bench's absolute best case scenario racking up stats against worn down prevent defenses, he still could barely could outperform QF in passing data (again while ignoring the huge disparity in running ability).  

 

Why is it that you don't want to compare their last few whole games for each?   The last few starts of each?   Their career numbers?   I know why, as does any body else.  

 

And please stop with the charade of Bench not getting a fair shake.  He's had 10+ pass attempts in 9 games here.  4 games of 20+.   He's had more than enough opportunities to prove himself. He's a good kid, a fighter and good team mate by all accounts.  But he's not remotely a good Div-1 QB.  To start him over QF at this point, is not only giving up on the season, but making the exact same mistake CWT made last year (and that a vast majority on here complained about) in not giving your starter a chance to grow.  

 

QF is not a good QB either, but taking any relative comparable data, the offense as a whole performs better under him than it did under Bench.  The absolute best argument you can make for Bench is he's "about the same".  But you don't drop a true sophomore likely to grow and improve "about the same" for a senior, is what he is, and gone after this year "about the same".  It makes virtually no sense in the short term, and is borderline moronic long term.   

Edited September 21, 2015 by Bullshiznitz

[JTrue]

 

So what did we decide on this Bench vs. Flowers thing?

[Who'sYourData?]

 

FACT:  it is undeniable, that despite the 60 yard passing day, he DESERVED at least twice that amount of yards.  .

 

 

I feel soooo much better now.

[CousinRicky]

 

 

One of many of your posts through the 17 pages of the "Start Bench!" thread:

Finally, look at [bench's numbers over the past 5 games]. If we can get this kind of production from the QB we will go bowling for sure! The TD to INT ratio should end any notion that he is a turn over machine. Further that avg passer rating for the last 5 games would put SB currently in the top 40 QBs of 2015. Those of us asking to "SEE" SB I believe are fully justified.

Yeah that is a great post isn't it Thanks for reposting...

Still not sure how that supports your straw man argument that QF is losing us games. That is just supporting my argument that I think SB is good enough to get a shot at QB and might win us games. See the differences? If we get a good lead QF has the type of game where we would might be able to grind out a win if our D is good enough.

 

As stated previously, our offense is too one dimensional. With the USF version of the read option, the only option is to run, unless someone is fully wide open down field. Taggart wants QF to win the game with his feet but as we've all seen, that is not going to happen when the defense always knows your running. 

 

Every defense we have played outside of FAMU just spy's the qb since they know we're not athletic enough at WR to beat them downfield. If we were we'd be playing 4 and 5 sets all day.The only way any qb beats a team with their feet is through improvisation. Daniels and Grothe went through their progressions and then made defenses pay with their athleticism if nothing was there. 

 

When QF is in, we don't throw enough and that pisses people off. Say what you want, but QF hasn't thrown even remotely enough for anyone to have an opinion on how good of a passer he is. However, QF has done a good job overall of protecting the ball while he's in. With SB in, we throw much more, but the kid has a gunslinger mentality which at times has lead to stupid stupid picks. He is a toss up, because when he plays his best, he can make some really nice throws. 

 

I'm in 100% agreement that SB and QF are not big threats at the position and it is hard to say one is the "better" option for this team. I just don't think it will matter who is in with the current play calling via Taggart. With that said, change the game plan by Memphis to feature some easy throws for SB and I'd be completely fine with him playing. I think he is plenty mobile enough for this system. However, I'd really like to see QF have the chance to throw the ball more. 

 

 

 

First one, have you watched Navy?

 

Second one, do you think that is possibly because of the confidence in the QB throwing the ball?  The plays called when Bench is in there seem to be different.  There do appear to be passing plays in the play book.