How big is Ray Jays new one going to be?

[WWMJD]

Big portion or not, why? For doing what? In the community stadium?

Because that's the deal the TSA made with them to help keep them here. They, being the TSA, must have figured it was worth it for the community in the long run. Same reason Hillsborough and Polk Counties gave millions of dollars in tax breaks to Amazon.

There were a ton of factors that played into this beyond just the 'worth it to the community' part, though (although there is an undeniable financial impact from the team's presence here). Chiefly, the commissioners KNEW that the voters would never buy such a terrible deal, so they tied a ton of public funding for schools, police, etc. to it. So as it stood at the time it was presented to the community: "You want school funding? Well if you want that, you also get a stadium!" It's not like this was a new tactic - U.S. congress has been doing this for decades with pork barrel legislation... but this instance was a little more egregious, since with normal pork barrel politics, the benefit to a private company is way more veiled than it was here.

I'm guessing the truth is somewhere between what you're saying and this ....

The tax, which passed with 53 percent of the vote, promised new schools, strengthened law enforcement and better roads. It also included money to pay back bonds for Raymond James Stadium, home of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers pro football team.

Voters had rejected previous referendums for police and schools, and many thought the 1996 vote succeeded because it included the stadium, which kept the Buccaneers from leaving town.

http://tbo.com/news/politics/hillsboroughs-community-investment-tax-tapped-out-b82480305z1

For what it's worth, the commissioner who sponsored the referendum we're talking about openly acknowledged (there's news article out there) flat out that he couldn't have gotten the stadium through without the schools and other stuff. Also a few years after that he said that the stadium killed his career (I would contend rightfully so).

[Triple B]

As I recall, as a resident of Pasco County, the original vote - the stadium standing alone - failed.

I can find nothing to corroborate that recollection.

 

Had to add the idea of parks, libraries and schools to reel in the suckers and freeriders. Many weren't even started when RJS completed.

Considering the revenue was to be spread out over 30 years, the overwhelming majority of the other projects to be funded by the CIT weren't started by that time. Since then, though, here's some stuff that my fair city has used the monies for:

 

 

City of Temple Terrace 

 

The Community Investment Tax (CIT) has funded over $14.2 million in projects that 

have directly benefited the citizens of TempleTerrace. Public safety vehicles have been 

purchased for the City's police and fire departments that provide equipment for response 

to citizen requests. 

 

The Police Department has purchased 63 fully-equipped patrol vehicles utilizing CIT 

funds, including several vehicles upgraded with AED (automated external defibrillator) 

devices and video cameras. In order to provide a timely response to emergency calls, the 

Fire Department has added to its fleet and equipped several vehicles, including three 

fully-equipped ambulances; a brush truck used tocontain trash and off-road fires; a 75-foot aerial ladder truck with paramedic equipment; two fire engines; and five 

administrative vehicles. 

 

CIT monies have funded several building improvements in the City of Temple Terrace, 

including a 20,000-square-foot library expansion and renovation, substantial 

improvements to both Fire Stations, improvements to the Emergency Operations Center 

at Fire Station #1, security cameras for the Police Department, and improvements to City 

Hall, including customer service, housing, and code compliance relocation. 

 

The City purchased an open architecture digital City-wide radio system to improve 

equipment reliability, communications, and adequate dispatch capabilities for Public 

Safety and other departments during emergencies. 

 

Parks and Recreation facilities in Temple Terrace have also benefited from CIT funds. 

Approximately 7 acres of land has been purchased for park development in Riverhills 

area, coupled with a State grant. Improvements to park facilities are on-going, including 

renovation of concession facilities. Renovations to the Omar K. Lightfoot Recreation 

Center, coupled with a CDBG grant of $476,644, enhanced the home of the City's 

popular senior program. Riverside Park improvements, which include the Angel of Hope 

Memorial, significantly improved the area withthe assistance of a State grant of 

$199,440. Recognizing the need to protect a precious natural resource that flows through 

the City -- the Hillsborough River, the Parks and Recreation Department has also 

completed improvements related to the environmental land acquisition and protection 

program (ELAPP)

 

http://fl-hillsboroughcounty.civicplus.com/ArchiveCenter/ViewFile/Item/464

[Triple B]

 

 

 

 

Big portion or not, why? For doing what? In the community stadium?

Because that's the deal the TSA made with them to help keep them here. They, being the TSA, must have figured it was worth it for the community in the long run. Same reason Hillsborough and Polk Counties gave millions of dollars in tax breaks to Amazon.

There were a ton of factors that played into this beyond just the 'worth it to the community' part, though (although there is an undeniable financial impact from the team's presence here). Chiefly, the commissioners KNEW that the voters would never buy such a terrible deal, so they tied a ton of public funding for schools, police, etc. to it. So as it stood at the time it was presented to the community: "You want school funding? Well if you want that, you also get a stadium!" It's not like this was a new tactic - U.S. congress has been doing this for decades with pork barrel legislation... but this instance was a little more egregious, since with normal pork barrel politics, the benefit to a private company is way more veiled than it was here.

I'm guessing the truth is somewhere between what you're saying and this ....

The tax, which passed with 53 percent of the vote, promised new schools, strengthened law enforcement and better roads. It also included money to pay back bonds for Raymond James Stadium, home of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers pro football team.

Voters had rejected previous referendums for police and schools, and many thought the 1996 vote succeeded because it included the stadium, which kept the Buccaneers from leaving town.

http://tbo.com/news/politics/hillsboroughs-community-investment-tax-tapped-out-b82480305z1

For what it's worth, the commissioner who sponsored the referendum we're talking about openly acknowledged (there's news article out there) flat out that he couldn't have gotten the stadium through without the schools and other stuff. Also a few years after that he said that the stadium killed his career (I would contend rightfully so).

 

 

 

That was Joe Chillura. Bottom line is that the CIT was to generate around 4 billion dollars over the thirty years with just 6% of that going to the stadium, with the rest going to the community ..... Joe took one for the team/county.

[Brad]

What a massive overreach and gross plunder of the tax base.

My recollection against your internet search skills, you might win that one.

[WWMJD]

I think Trip is right on the vote issue, there was never a vote on a straight income tax on just the stadium itself. They had proposed a series of other stadium-only taxes that didn't work, though... although it might have been that Glazer that killed those (seriously) after determining they wouldn't generate enough.

They did actually start pushing just the stadium part of the income tax, but changed it after it became apparent it was gonna get slaughtered before they paired it with the other stuff:

"'Four weeks out in this race, there were no undecided voters,' said Jeff Eller, managing director of political consulting firm Public Strategies Inc. 'It was about 40/60 against it. We found out through polling, though, there was 16 percent willing to hold their nose and vote for it because of things in it other than the stadium, primarily schools.'"

[WWMJD]

That was Joe Chillura. Bottom line is that the CIT was to generate around 4 billion dollars over the thirty years with just 6% of that going to the stadium, with the rest going to the community ..... Joe took one for the team/county.

His motive was to get the stadium tax passed, and was willing to deal with adding the other stuff to appeal to, you know, the people who actually vote. If I rob the Salvation Army soup kitchen and have to give the guy living out back in a refrigerator box a bowl of soup to keep him from ratting me out, that doesn't make me a saint for doing it.

In the end, he lost his subsequent elections for this because people realized they had been bilked into paying $300 million for a profit generating machine for Glazer, and despite the fact that they are all so "dumb" (at least according to a few brilliant commenters in this thread, who are - ironically - part of the very base they insult), made the decision to boot this guy out on his ass.

Democracy sometimes works, just a little too slowly.

Edited July 17, 2014 by WWMJD

[charsibb]

 

That was Joe Chillura. Bottom line is that the CIT was to generate around 4 billion dollars over the thirty years with just 6% of that going to the stadium, with the rest going to the community ..... Joe took one for the team/county.

His motive was to get the stadium tax passed, and was willing to deal with adding the other stuff to appeal to, you know, the people who actually vote. If I rob the Salvation Army soup kitchen and have to give the guy living out back in a refrigerator box a bowl of soup to keep him from ratting me out, that doesn't make me a saint for doing it.

In the end, he lost his subsequent elections for this because people realized they had been bilked into paying $300 million for a profit generating machine for Glazer, and despite the fact that they are all so "dumb" (at least according to a few brilliant commenters in this thread, who are - ironically - part of the very base they insult), made the decision to boot this guy out on his ass.

Democracy sometimes works, just a little too slowly.

 

 

But we're a republic, not a democracy.

[Brad]

I think Trip is right on the vote issue, there was never a vote on a straight income tax on just the stadium itself. They had proposed a series of other stadium-only taxes that didn't work, though... although it might have been that Glazer that killed those (seriously) after determining they wouldn't generate enough.

They did actually start pushing just the stadium part of the income tax, but changed it after it became apparent it was gonna get slaughtered before they paired it with the other stuff:

"'Four weeks out in this race, there were no undecided voters,' said Jeff Eller, managing director of political consulting firm Public Strategies Inc. 'It was about 40/60 against it. We found out through polling, though, there was 16 percent willing to hold their nose and vote for it because of things in it other than the stadium, primarily schools.'"

 

That clears it up for me, thanks.

[Joe]

Bottom line, short of keeping the Bucs in town, the stadium was an awful deal for the county. USF has benefited from that awful deal.

[WWMJD]

Bottom line, short of keeping the Bucs in town, the stadium was an awful deal for the county. USF has benefited from that awful deal.

Doubtful, but that's topic for another thread because you're a little late to this particular dumpster fire.