How big is Ray Jays new one going to be?

[WWMJD]

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Edited July 18, 2014 by WWMJD

[WWMJD]

I said an interesting perspective ...... but not an avenue that I, as a native of Tampa and Tampa Bay sports aficionado, would have wanted to go down ... and the over $3 billion over 30 years the community will see now is tons more than the private party is making off the non-Buc stuff at the stadium now.

Killin' my buzz, man.

[Brad]

Bribe money.

I wonder how much of that money extracted from the taxpayers actually comtributed to a proven need.

It's more like when my wife takes money from my 401k and goes to Europe, she throws a couple Bulls polos in my drawer so I feel like I'm getting away with something too. (Probably gave my kids some stuff too - tossing a little out to them since it was their inheritance pilfered).

[Triple B]

It's more like when my wife takes money from my 401k and goes to Europe, she throws a couple Bulls polos in my drawer so I feel like I'm getting away with something too. (Probably gave my kids some stuff too - tossing a little out to them since it was their inheritance pilfered).

 

Those must be pretty expensive polos ..... and the stuff for the kids must be stuff like cars and flat screen tv's.

[Brad]

Glazers got the big item too.

I have a small family, but I think you get the point.

Even if you pay Paul, doesn't make it alright to rob Peter. But we disagree.

Go Bulls!

[Joe]

It's all speculation, but I would have loved USF Football to have a chance to fill the void left by the Bucs.

That's an interesting perspective I had forgotten about. USF's attendance dropped by 6-8K the 5 years following the inaugural one ... which coincided with the resurgence of the Bucs. If they had moved, how many of the local football fans move over to the Bulls?

...And take HALF the money that Ray J cost to build an actual community stadium... and put the profits back into the community instead of sending them to a private party...

Welcome to the dark side Trip.

I said an interesting perspective ...... but not an avenue that I, as a native of Tampa and Tampa Bay sports aficionado, would have wanted to go down ... and the over $3 billion over 30 years the community will see now is tons more than the private party is making off the non-Buc stuff at the stadium now.

Every major well respected economist has said tax payer funded stadiums are horrible deals for the community. It's not a good deal financially, even with the Chamber of Commerce numbers you're throwing around.

[Triple B]

 

 

 

 

It's all speculation, but I would have loved USF Football to have a chance to fill the void left by the Bucs.

That's an interesting perspective I had forgotten about. USF's attendance dropped by 6-8K the 5 years following the inaugural one ... which coincided with the resurgence of the Bucs. If they had moved, how many of the local football fans move over to the Bulls?

...And take HALF the money that Ray J cost to build an actual community stadium... and put the profits back into the community instead of sending them to a private party...

Welcome to the dark side Trip.

I said an interesting perspective ...... but not an avenue that I, as a native of Tampa and Tampa Bay sports aficionado, would have wanted to go down ... and the over $3 billion over 30 years the community will see now is tons more than the private party is making off the non-Buc stuff at the stadium now.

Every major well respected economist has said tax payer funded stadiums are horrible deals for the community. It's not a good deal financially, even with the Chamber of Commerce numbers you're throwing around.

 

 

Of course, financially, in most cases, the deal's going to be in favor of the team but there are a lot worse cases than ours and the way RayJay was funded is hardly a horrible deal for the community ....especially in comparison to other deals around the country. Bottom line is that these type deals aren't going away any time soon. Here's a pretty informative article on these things, http://www.brookings.edu/research/articles/1997/06/summer-taxes-noll

[charsibb]

 

 

 

 

 

It's all speculation, but I would have loved USF Football to have a chance to fill the void left by the Bucs.

That's an interesting perspective I had forgotten about. USF's attendance dropped by 6-8K the 5 years following the inaugural one ... which coincided with the resurgence of the Bucs. If they had moved, how many of the local football fans move over to the Bulls?

...And take HALF the money that Ray J cost to build an actual community stadium... and put the profits back into the community instead of sending them to a private party...

Welcome to the dark side Trip.

I said an interesting perspective ...... but not an avenue that I, as a native of Tampa and Tampa Bay sports aficionado, would have wanted to go down ... and the over $3 billion over 30 years the community will see now is tons more than the private party is making off the non-Buc stuff at the stadium now.

Every major well respected economist has said tax payer funded stadiums are horrible deals for the community. It's not a good deal financially, even with the Chamber of Commerce numbers you're throwing around.

 

 

Of course, financially, in most cases, the deal's going to be in favor of the team but there are a lot worse cases than ours and the way RayJay was funded is hardly a horrible deal for the community ....especially in comparison to other deals around the country. Bottom line is that these type deals aren't going away any time soon. Here's a pretty informative article on these things, http://www.brookings.edu/research/articles/1997/06/summer-taxes-noll

 

 

 

Great read.  One of the most telling of all is the following. Once again, those with more political pull use the pathways of government to transfer money from the poor to the rich. Just gotta give 'em enough bread and circuses to keep 'em from upsetting the applecart.

 

Promotional studies also fail to take into account differences between sports and other industries in income distribution. Most sports revenue goes to a relatively few players, managers, coaches, and executives who earn extremely high salaries—all well above the earnings of people who work in the industries that are substitutes for sports. Most stadium employees work part time at very low wages and earn a small fraction of team revenues. Thus, substituting spending on sports for other recreational spending concentrates income, reduces the total number of jobs, and replaces full-time jobs with low-wage, part-time jobs.

 

...

 

A professional sports team, therefore, creates a "public good" or "externality"—a benefit enjoyed by consumers who follow sports regardless of whether they help pay for it. The magnitude of this benefit is unknown, and is not shared by everyone; nevertheless, it exists. As a result, sports fans are likely to accept higher taxes or reduced public services to attract or keep a team, even if they do not attend games themselves. These fans, supplemented and mobilized by teams, local media, and local interests that benefit directly from a stadium, constitute the base of political support for subsidized sports facilities.

[Brad]

 

Great read.  One of the most telling of all is the following. Once again, those with more political pull use the pathways of government to transfer money from the poor to the rich. Just gotta give 'em enough bread and circuses to keep 'em from upsetting the applecart.

 

Promotional studies also fail to take into account differences between sports and other industries in income distribution. Most sports revenue goes to a relatively few players, managers, coaches, and executives who earn extremely high salaries—all well above the earnings of people who work in the industries that are substitutes for sports. Most stadium employees work part time at very low wages and earn a small fraction of team revenues. Thus, substituting spending on sports for other recreational spending concentrates income, reduces the total number of jobs, and replaces full-time jobs with low-wage, part-time jobs....

 

A professional sports team, therefore, creates a "public good" or "externality"—a benefit enjoyed by consumers who follow sports regardless of whether they help pay for it. The magnitude of this benefit is unknown, and is not shared by everyone; nevertheless, it exists. As a result, sports fans are likely to accept higher taxes or reduced public services to attract or keep a team, even if they do not attend games themselves. These fans, supplemented and mobilized by teams, local media, and local interests that benefit directly from a stadium, constitute the base of political support for subsidized sports facilities.

 

 

I don't think the money transferred to the players managers, coaches (and politicians) came from the poor, but that makes for great rhetoric.

 

Regardless, it was a handout that shouldn't have happened.

[Skingraft]

Wealth transfer....