USF OCS on the Cheap

[Cow Pie]

Here is the math:

Less tickets sold, declining ticket prices, lower donations raised, debt paying off former football coach(es), debt paying off new olympic sport facilities, debt paying off Sun Dome renovations, less bowl revenue, less tv revenue

equals

No realistic shot at an OCS (not saying it was a priority, but it certainly can't be one now)

until

we move to a power conference

(I am not saying this is a forever problem, but there is really no need to talk about an OCS now ... unless we get an invite to a better conference dependent on an OCS)

I’m not sure that I agree with these sentiments. I think we all understand that money is a significant barrier, however that is the case with everything in life. We cannot just throw our hands in the air and be passive participants in our own future.

Unless FSU bolts the ACC, there is no guarantee that a power conference will be calling on USF anytime soon. The conference reshuffling has followed a very predictable pattern with AAU membership and established programs at the forefront. Louisville was the first program to break that mold as the Big East had no more AAU schools left, but they certainly have a large following. Syracuse just recently lost AAU membership.

I think the stadium issue is a chicken and egg scenario. Do you passively wait to get the call to the “big leagues†or do you take matters into your own hands and continuously invest in your program.

Certainly the trend around the country is moving to on campus facilities, we can always point to the few programs who do not operate in this manner but they are few and far between, and nobody thinks that those schools are making it work. USC and UCLA are essentially the sole tenants of their stadiums, I do not consider them in USF’s situation.

Will an iconic structure such as a stadium change the perception of the campus? Will it help recruiting? Will having alumni and fans now on the campus during gameday instill more university pride and giving? Will games be better attended by students? Will all this lead to more success in terms of wins, losses, and fanbase? Will this improve Judy's graduation rates? We just don't know.

We invested in the other sports facilities, but this is all about football, football, and football. If soccer, softball, and baseball improved ticket and merchandise sales 1000%, it would still be peanuts compared to the potential from benefits from football. Do we say these were bad investments?

We like to make fun of UCF, but if you talk to anyone from that school they feel the stadium has been a huge success. Even most of the hardcore fans on this board agree that they have a better game day atmosphere, and what will we say if they upgrade, add a façade and have something very similar to Doak Campbell.

I do not feel we need something like the University of Minnesota, a 40,000 seat stadium designed for expansion would easily suffice.

I just worry that the longer USF procrastinates on the issue the further we fall behind, only time will tell. Again, of course money is a significant barrier, but it is a barrier to every venture in life. We do not know what we can raise until we try and debt is not neccessarily a bad thing if it is towards a good investment.

I love the attitude, but it is one thing to say "let be proactive" but the question remains, is it possible.

Please understand, USF Athletics wrote checks on the future Big East TV contract being over $10 million per school per year. It now may be 75% lower. Right now USF is facing a crisis of how to pay for everything they went into debt to build and now don't have the revenue stream to pay for. We are paying some coaches and administrators at big time program levels, and USF in the Big East will not be bringing in big time program revenues. When we built a soccer stadium, baseball stadium, renovated track and football facilities, softball stadium and renovated the Sun Dome, we didn't write a check ... we borrowed money. Money we now have to pay back. Yes we raised some of it with donations, but I would assume well over 50% of those costs are still on our balance sheet as debt.

If the Big East dissolves, then we may lose the one thing we had going for us, one more year of big time. No Big East means no BCS money for next season (remember, the BCS still exists next year).

Let me be clear, no one is to blame. When we started construction on those projects no one could have seen this coming.

When we entered C-USA it was a step up, and we could easily increase spending to put us in line with our new league. As our league slips backwards to a quasi C-USA, we have a big trouble, because we have all sorts of money commitments that are at levels that are too high for our new surroundings.

Hmmmm... your the man Stub and I see your point. A friend of mine that still works for Athletics told me this a week ago.

The purpose of this thread is to debate the possibility of getting the construction of an OCS within the next 5 years or so on the cheap. I know that many are not happy with the idea of moving into an erector set like stadium, so I'm trying to find out if there is a possibility that we can get a stadium that is not an erector set for less then $100 million dollars.

The first stadium I posted was built with Nascar $$ a long time ago and was made into a football stadium for about $20 Million... the Yale Bowl is one of the most historic OCS's in college football and it was built for $12 Million in current 2012 dollars.

I think we can build a stadium for less then $100 million, and think that we could have a really nice one for less then $50 or $30 million as well.

If we were to build a replica of the Yale Bowl then we could easily add seat backs to the lower bowl area, like they are doing in the Rose Bowl, for a little bit more. After all the Rose Bowl is a copy of this stadium minus the dirt berms. We could also build it out to 60K seating for $12 million, which will allow us to add on a large press box to one side, and some luxury box seats to the other top of the stands. The Yale Bowl has two concourse areas... they have one under the berms, and one on-top of berms. We could also lobby for some Federal grants since we can sell it as a "green" stadium... the Federal Government seems to love to waste $$ on handing out grants for "Green" projects.

Like Mike said we are sol and I don't see Athletics shelling out the money anytime soon for a Wisconsin styled stadium... likewise we are also losing out on possible revenue by not having the games on campus (100% of parking, concessions, ticket sales, etc. vs. whatever it is we get now).

There is talk right now of an inside practice facility that costs $15 million... well why not just build a Yale Bowl with some minor upgrades, and some redesigning for the same price?

Edited December 13, 2012 by Bubba Bull

[Rizman]

Makes no sense to do it the cheap way when there's an NFL stadium 10 miles away. It's best to just wait until we can build a top-notch stadium like Minnesota's or Oregon's. Patience is a virtue.

Start raising the money now, in 10 years we can do it.

[TherapyBull]

I agree Mike, I do not think it is fair to blame anyone for upgrading the other sports facilities. Nobody could have predicted what has unfolded. However, we did upgrade the facilities for sports that are essentially also rans in this whole process. The upgrades really do not benefit anyone but the teams that use them, there is no trickle affect to the rest of the university. It would be interesting to see the thought process involved in taking care of them first before looking after football. It is clear that football is the driver and does have impact on the rest of the university. It might possibly be that they were just low hanging fruit, or they were so terrible the Big East was complaining. In this situation I think the majority of fans would rather be paying debt on a football stadium then these facilities, but obviously hindsight is always 20/20.

I still do not see why USF does not have specific fundraising campaigns for the Indoor Practice Facility or an eventual stadium fund. We can't raise money until we ask. Let the people in the Foundation put their creative brains to work and come up with some fundraising gimmicks.

[fuhbull11]

I agree Mike, I do not think it is fair to blame anyone for upgrading the other sports facilities. Nobody could have predicted what has unfolded. However, we did upgrade the facilities for sports that are essentially also rans in this whole process. The upgrades really do not benefit anyone but the teams that use them, there is no trickle affect to the rest of the university. It would be interesting to see the thought process involved in taking care of them first before looking after football. It is clear that football is the driver and does have impact on the rest of the university. It might possibly be that they were just low hanging fruit, or they were so terrible the Big East was complaining. In this situation I think the majority of fans would rather be paying debt on a football stadium then these facilities, but obviously hindsight is always 20/20.

I still do not see why USF does not have specific fundraising campaigns for the Indoor Practice Facility or an eventual stadium fund. We can't raise money until we ask. Let the people in the Foundation put their creative brains to work and come up with some fundraising gimmicks.

Do you remember what our facilities looked life before? There are other athletes at this University that deserve the facilities that were built. Why would USF put itself in that much debt? If the A.D did not suspect what has taken place in the realignment process, then he was not doing his job. He knew it would be a long shot to put USF in another conference. Raymond James fits our football needs. Soccer and Softball are the most successful sports on the campus and we played in a conference known for basketball. It’s pretty clear to see why the upgrades were made and when.

[TherapyBull]

I agree Mike, I do not think it is fair to blame anyone for upgrading the other sports facilities. Nobody could have predicted what has unfolded. However, we did upgrade the facilities for sports that are essentially also rans in this whole process. The upgrades really do not benefit anyone but the teams that use them, there is no trickle affect to the rest of the university. It would be interesting to see the thought process involved in taking care of them first before looking after football. It is clear that football is the driver and does have impact on the rest of the university. It might possibly be that they were just low hanging fruit, or they were so terrible the Big East was complaining. In this situation I think the majority of fans would rather be paying debt on a football stadium then these facilities, but obviously hindsight is always 20/20.

I still do not see why USF does not have specific fundraising campaigns for the Indoor Practice Facility or an eventual stadium fund. We can't raise money until we ask. Let the people in the Foundation put their creative brains to work and come up with some fundraising gimmicks.

Do you remember what our facilities looked life before? There are other athletes at this University that deserve the facilities that were built. Why would USF put itself in that much debt? If the A.D did not suspect what has taken place in the realignment process, then he was not doing his job. He knew it would be a long shot to put USF in another conference. Raymond James fits our football needs. Soccer and Softball are the most successful sports on the campus and we played in a conference known for basketball. It’s pretty clear to see why the upgrades were made and when.

I agree the facilities were terrible, but looking back, you have to upgrade what will give you the most bang for your buck. If the upgrades lead to better softball and soccer performance, so what in the larger athletic climate? Don't know how we can even mention soccer and softball with football when we are talking about growing the university fanbase? Combine all the other sports this university fields and you do not even match half the power of football. The attendance of every home game in the history of USF softball might not even match the attendance at the very first USF football game in 1997. Look at it another way, the basketball powerhouse Kansas was essentailly without a home when the Big 12 had potential to dissolve. Sure they would have found some home, but it shows that this is clearly about football.

Yes Raymond James meets our needs, it has two endzones separated by 100 yards, but its 12 miles away from the campus. We lose 6 opportunities a year to have 40K people on the campus. The OCS threads are littered with all the potential benefits.

Again Debt is not neccessarily a bad thing, 100k debt to go to medical school not a bad choice. 100K debt with an English degree, maybe not the best choice right now. A 30 year mortage on a house purchased 15 years ago, you made money, A 30 year mortgage on a house purchased in 2007, you are probably underwater.

Debt incurred to bring 50K to the campus, change university perception, and instill new sense of pride amongst students and alumni which translates into more giving is something worth looking into. The same simply cannot be said about the debt incurred for the other facilities.

[Rocky Style]

I'm thinking the best way to build a stadium on the cheap would be to do the earth model that Yale uses..

Its concrete and dirt, with a seating structure in the middle... no way it would cost that much to build this thing.

According to Wikipedia it would cost $12 million to build this exact stadium, and it holds 60K. I would bet that we could build an adjusted version of this stadium for not much more to include a donors section with seat backs, some press boxes, and build it so you can expand it past 60K, but I really don't see us even needing 60K.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yale_Bowl

Not familiar with this construction method, could someone enlighten me? Is the field technically below ground? If so, wouldn't we have problems hitting the water table? It sounds like a maintenance nightmare, especially during hurricane season.

Dude this stadium looks awesome! Love it. Hey... this reminds of the Business Administration building at USF (not the new Grad building). I actually DON'T love that building, but love this stadium's look.

[Danm1983]

[Hem]

You can't base "current reality" off of one terrible season where we FIRED our coach because he sucked so bad. Current reality should be the general trending number of attendees since joining the BE in 2005. We pack that stadium pretty good when we're winning.

[Triple B]

You can't base "current reality" off of one terrible season where we FIRED our coach because he sucked so bad. Current reality should be the general trending number of attendees since joining the BE in 2005. We pack that stadium pretty good when we're winning.

We went to a bowl how many years in a row .... and how many times did we "pack" that stadium?

[Danm1983]

yeah and apparently you missed the fact it was a JOKE.