12 Basketball Transfers in 4 Years?

[Vega]

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/bulls/content/guard-burwell-granted-release-transfer-usf

"With Burwell and Haynes, USF has had 12 scholarship players transfer out in the four years since Heath was hired -- eight played Division I basketball at other schools last season."

I understand Heath had turnover in his first year on the job, and this is reasonable considering the change in coaching philosophies. But Heath has still had players he has recruited included in the figures cited above. Doesn't this high turnover of scholarship players adversely impact USF's APR scores assuming the transferring player doesn't graduate from the school he's transferred to? Also, it's probably a testament to how poorly Heath's recruited in his tenure here.

This also impacts recruiting. Don't think that opposing coaches aren't using this against Heath in recruiting battles. Also he can't go back to those prep schools or high schools and get another player if the same coach is there. Right now all Heath will be able to do is sign JC players and get transfers because that is the only trend he has established here at USF.

Without the ability to sign good HS talent this program will never grow under Heath. HS talent is the way to grow and maintain a winning program. This is yet another reason why I say Woolard is a sleep at the wheel. He should know these things being an AD and former basketball coach.

There is so much repair work that the next HC will have do when Heath is soon gone that I hope whoever the AD is he gets a guy that will up to it. The fans, local coaches, and all the bridges Heath is burning along the way are the major jobs the new guy will have to tackle with both sleeves rolled up.

[smazza]

why sign only two

they were the best

[Mama_Bull]

why sign only two

they were the best

USF signed 2 in the early period and will sign 2 more this week:

"With nine scholarship players returning and a four-member recruiting class to be wrapped up this week, Heath should have talent and experience with which to improve on a disappointing 2010-11 season."

[Triple B]

There is so much repair work that the next HC will have do when Heath is soon gone that I hope whoever the AD is he gets a guy that will up to it. The fans, local coaches, and all the bridges Heath is burning along the way are the major jobs the new guy will have to tackle with both sleeves rolled up.

Seriously, I think this is the part you can't get through your head, mainly because you just latched on here, for whatever reason, when Stan came on board .... There is no more repair work to do NOW than there was when Stan was hired ...  there were NO bridges to be burned ... Someone is needed to BUILD the program, not rebuild. If Stan's not the one, we'll move on and give someone else a chance ... but for God's sake, stop acting like Stan is singlehandedly dismantling some hoops juggernaut ... or even a mini-juggernaut.

[DELdaBull]

There is so much repair work that the next HC will have do when Heath is soon gone that I hope whoever the AD is he gets a guy that will up to it. The fans, local coaches, and all the bridges Heath is burning along the way are the major jobs the new guy will have to tackle with both sleeves rolled up.

Seriously, I think this is the part you can't get through your head, mainly because you just latched on here, for whatever reason, when Stan came on board .... There is no more repair work to do NOW than there was when Stan was hired ...  there were NO bridges to be burned ... Someone is needed to BUILD the program, not rebuild. If Stan's not the one, we'll move on and give someone else a chance ... but for God's sake, stop acting like Stan is singlehandedly dismantling some hoops juggernaut ... or even a mini-juggernaut.

LOL

pwned

[Bullpride08]

There is so much repair work that the next HC will have do when Heath is soon gone that I hope whoever the AD is he gets a guy that will up to it. The fans, local coaches, and all the bridges Heath is burning along the way are the major jobs the new guy will have to tackle with both sleeves rolled up.

Seriously, I think this is the part you can't get through your head, mainly because you just latched on here, for whatever reason, when Stan came on board .... There is no more repair work to do NOW than there was when Stan was hired ...  there were NO bridges to be burned ... Someone is needed to BUILD the program, not rebuild. If Stan's not the one, we'll move on and give someone else a chance ... but for God's sake, stop acting like Stan is singlehandedly dismantling some hoops juggernaut ... or even a mini-juggernaut.

I don't think Vega is saying he dismantled a juggernaut, or at least I hope that's not what he is saying.  But what is clear is that Stan has no clear definition of the type of program he wants to run at USF.  The concern is that many players do not match the system Stan seems exclusively willing to employ on the court.  Thus we end up seeing lots of transfers and departures, and those departures do have a negative reflection of our program in regard to HS and JUCO coaches, and regarding the APR possibly.  A negative connotation on the program a stigma that will continue to plague the program after Stan leaves.  To Stan's defense CRM started much of this mess, and he seemed all to willing to continue to trend of quick fixes and no strict plan to recruiting.  I see HS kids that could be more then what they are when they leave but leave because they're playing a system that is not conducive to their style of play.  Another issue is bringing in a guy like Blake, a real great JUCO prospect who's a sell described fast paced guard who likes to create on the run, and is an adept scorer and passer.  How will he handle Stan's slowed down tempo, half-court offense on the court?  Will Stan change his system to a more up-tempo transition offense with all these athletes he's assembled like Robertson, Poland, Crater, Anderson, Blake, and Rudd?  Or will be continue to go square-peg in a round-hole with these guys trying to make them into what they are not and ultimately forcing more guys to want out?

That's the question.  To stop this player carousel he must recruit HIS STYLE players.  He must bring in youth he can develop over time that fits his system.  Burwell was a transition kid, a rangy wing player that is more adept at running, shooting as a trailing shooter, and finding opportunities to pick and pop.  He wasn't a half-court set-shot guy, and therefore this ending was inevitable.  Burwell scored 32ppg in HS, and averaged nearly 20ppg at a prep school juggernaut, and he came to USF and was a fish out of water and never stood a chance.  This can't keep happening, Stan either needs to adjust his style of play to match his players abilities and allow them to develop cohesively in it, or he must stick to recruiting his style of player for his system even if it means a slow development.  To date he hasn't done that and that is why we are where we are.

If Heath does what I expect him to do next year then he'll probably be gone because these kids will not conform.  It's not in their nature or their abilities.  He will fail and we will find a new coach, and my only hope is that coach sticks to a hard philosophy of play and recruits that way no matter how tough the sledding might be in the early going.  We tried for quick answers and there is no short-cuts in Big East hoops.

[bcgruber]

Do you think we are the only school that lets kids go... to bring in new?  Huggins has been using JC guys for years, look at kentucky's turnover ,look at memphis, Georgetown, Florida.  They all have players leave for whatever reason.  The main reason we have had the turnover is becasue the guys couldn't cut it in the BE.  OF all our transfers what did the turn into?  would you seriously want them back if we could .  No to every one of them.( I know this is now opening up that he can't coach them better, but that is a different discussion.  Another example of players leaving is Michigan state, Louisville, Uconn, and NC the list goes on and on.  And these are established schools.  We have a much harder time getting good players here because of the past 20 years not the past 3 alone.  Duke even took on a transfer (Curry) so the big schools do it all the time or do you not pay attention as to how they get their players?  NC took in a transfer from alabama i think.  Florida has a transfer from G'town.  Seton hall has two transfers one from memphis on from ole miss.  The list goes on and on.  I'd much rather have a proven JC player with 3 years of eligibility over most HS players that would come to USF at this stage of the game

[DERBY]

In my opinion the bottom line is that Heath is too rigid with his system.  The best coaches are the ones that look at the talent that is available and still find a way to make it work as well as they can.

[Triple B]

Another issue is bringing in a guy like Blake, a real great JUCO prospect who's a sell described fast paced guard who likes to create on the run, and is an adept scorer and passer.  How will he handle Stan's slowed down tempo, half-court offense on the court?  Will Stan change his system to a more up-tempo transition offense with all these athletes he's assembled like Robertson, Poland, Crater, Anderson, Blake, and Rudd?  Or will be continue to go square-peg in a round-hole with these guys trying to make them into what they are not and ultimately forcing more guys to want out?

Maybe Blake will come in and play the way Stan WANTS the pg to play ... AFter the Nova win in the tourney, where Crater turned into a whirling dervish, both coach and player had post game comments saying CSH has been trying to push him to do that all year. Maybe the square peg is the players not being able to execute the system, not the system ... Next season will be the most athletic bunch, outside the big kids, we've had since Stan's been here ... It will be interesting.

[Vega]

There is so much repair work that the next HC will have do when Heath is soon gone that I hope whoever the AD is he gets a guy that will up to it. The fans, local coaches, and all the bridges Heath is burning along the way are the major jobs the new guy will have to tackle with both sleeves rolled up.

Seriously, I think this is the part you can't get through your head, mainly because you just latched on here, for whatever reason, when Stan came on board .... There is no more repair work to do NOW than there was when Stan was hired ...  there were NO bridges to be burned ... Someone is needed to BUILD the program, not rebuild. If Stan's not the one, we'll move on and give someone else a chance ... but for God's sake, stop acting like Stan is singlehandedly dismantling some hoops juggernaut ... or even a mini-juggernaut.

LOL

pwned

Stop with the man crush Delta. Everybody on this board knows it's virtually impossible for Triple B to own or pwn anybody but himself, because 90% of his replies are off topic in order to fit what he has to say. Things that make you say  ??? is what the famous one is known for.