Maybe Skip's family isn't so perfect??

[hightechbull]

More details here: http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/sep/17/171614/tale-of-a-gun-a-man-and-3-plant-high-students-head/news-breaking/

Sounds to me like the guy was defending his family. There is no excuse for snot-nosed kids coming around to harrass people at 3:30 in the morning, and this had been building for a few days.

He fired the gun when one of the kids came at him.

What he might have done differently was to announce a Citizen's Arrest to officially take control of the situation...although I can't say I have any knowledge of that aspect of Florida law.

There is no such thing as a Citizen's Arrest.  It may sound legit on TV programs, but it does not exist.  Detain someone and the police will charge you with false imprisionment.  Detain someone with a firearm, and the police will charge you with armed false imprisonment.  So instead of you being a tough guy, you will end up in jail were some big dude named Bubba will possibly take stool samples from you until a family member posts bail.

[IncrediBULL]

The son was threatened during the day.  They showed up at 3:30am to egg the kids car.  Not exactly life threatening.

My father would have told me to kick their ass the next day, not come out with a shotgun because they were egging my car.

Kids being kids, all around.

Read it again.  They spray painted the car.  That is serious damage, probably felony level.  PRetty serious allegations.

[hightechbull]

And I do think the homeowner got a little bit too John Wayne.

That is an insult to John Wayne.  Not once in any of his movies was he a wreckless moron with a handgun.  He may have played a cowboy, and he often was in gunfights, but he was always justified in his actions in his movies.

This guy was just a complete idiot.

[IncrediBULL]

still being in college i still remember TPing people's houses a couple times when i was in junior high and did other juvenile stuff. the problem i have with all this is that he threatened to beat up the kid with 3 of his friends to either watch or help....what kind of person does that? u already egged the house. thats enough! hopefully Trey he needs to be a better person and not be a bully. Also might need to find better friends when one threatened the adult in shooting him. That's asking for trouble and I knew that since I was 13. Playing football taught me a lot about respect for others and to always respond to adults as sir or maam and never show them disrespect. You would think Having Lou and Skip Holtz as grandfather and father would help you become a kind and goodhearted person. Hopefully this is was just a stupid mistake and will learn from it. I know when I have a family, I will do whatever I can to prevent my kids from ever acting this way. If I went too off topic I apologize was just my  :2cents

It says they spray painted the car.   That is serious, not kids stuff.  We tp'ed cars and did some shaving cream, etc.  But we always rang the doorbell and took off, so they could clean it up afterwards.  We would not have damaged anything though.

[IncrediBULL]

More details here: http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/sep/17/171614/tale-of-a-gun-a-man-and-3-plant-high-students-head/news-breaking/

Sounds to me like the guy was defending his family. There is no excuse for snot-nosed kids coming around to harrass people at 3:30 in the morning, and this had been building for a few days.

He fired the gun when one of the kids came at him.

What he might have done differently was to announce a Citizen's Arrest to officially take control of the situation...although I can't say I have any knowledge of that aspect of Florida law.

Defending his family would have been to stay in the house, call the cops, and if they tried to come in, then you can shoot them (See FL's castle doctrine).  You can also protect your assets and get in between if they are coming at your car.

If you were defending your possessions and they came at you and you are on your property, and they kept approacing after warning and you were in "fear of your life" at that point (maybe because of the sheer number, size, or weapons they had) then you can shoot. 

You cannot go out on the street, order people out of a car, and hold them at gunpoint.  That goes beyond the laws within our state (and probalby most states).  In addition, there is no such thing as a warning shot.  Most counties have laws against discharging weapons (in the air, ground, or at a target) and it is illegal.  The exception is if being used in self defense in a lawful manner.

The guy overstepped his bounds and should have handled it differently. He should be in trouble from a legal perspective.  Right or wrong, how those kids acted, did not equal his response.  You can pretty much only respond with a reasonable level of force if taking out a weapon (by law).  So if one teen were approaching with his hands up like he was going to fight you, let him hit you, and then if he continues to hit you, then you can use the force (assuming he isn't half your size, etc). 

The kids, should have their parents kick their collective arses for putting themselves in this position to begin with.  And if those texts, etc, are true, Holtz needs to have his kid on the football field running suicide drills daily for the next 3 months.  If it were my kid, their life would drastically change and not for the better.  All freedom's they had had, would go away immediately. 

[IncrediBULL]

I find it interesting how cool, calm, and collected some on this board act. If your not in the moment, you don't know how you will act. I do know that I would not let a GANG harm one of my children and yes, I would stop them any way I felt would work.

Trey Holtz said he was coming to inflict bodily harm. He then LIED to police and said he was driving home and some guy stops his car. BS!

Why were these punks not charged with breaking curfew, vandalism, threatening one with bodily harm, and if I'm not wrong there is a law against throwing objects at a house.

I hope this fellow has a decent lawyer.

I don't give a rats backside who's kids they are, they should be prosecuted.

Two wrongs does not make a right.  By law he cannot bring out a gun, falsely imprison people, and fire a weapon.  There are laws surrounding that.  As for protecting the kids, what is wrong with having the "kids" stay inside, lock the door, call the cops, and if you feel compelled sit on the doorstep with a gun (and a video camera if you need it) to protect the casle. Now that would be completely legal. 

Agreed with you on most of the other points, the teens should be in trouble too.

[IncrediBULL]

Perhaps we are cool, calm, and collected because we are trained in the appropriate use of a weapon either through military training or civilian training (NRA, concealed weapon classes, etc.)  Once you have been trained extensively (especially military) you do have a level of confidence in your reaction.  Discharging a weapon as a warning is a violation of ANY training one will receive.  One NEVER discharges a weapon without the intent to kill.  Flashing a gun around without the intent to kill introduces the possibility of having that weapon taken away from you and used on you or someone else.  This is not a game.

Yep...that's it in a nutshell. There's a few too many people out there who purchase a firearm and rely on flawed information (never read the book, never took the course, or at worst, rely on rumor and television and movies) when it comes to proper firearms handling.

The bottom line: your car gets egged and some kids are threatening an arse whoopin' of someone; think that's really worth shooting and killing? Once that round leaves the barrel, it ain't coming back.  Use of force should be proportional,

My recommendation to anyone, if you own a gun or are thinking of owning a gun, go to a gun safety class and consider a CWP permit (or at least that class).  Also read a book you can get from Amazon called Florida Firearms Laws (or something like that).  It was written by an Orlando Lawyer who specializes in cases such as this.  It explans what a person CAN and CANNOT do with a weapon.  It also more broadly defines weapons which require a permit. 

For the most part, I believe that current/ex military, cops, are the safest as they have been trained what they can and cannot do. For civies like me, the next best thing is an appropriate amount of classroom, licensing, NRA,and reading up on the law.  I am still learning, but clearly I know the guy acted inappropriately based on Florida statutes.

[CousinRicky]

More details here: http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/sep/17/171614/tale-of-a-gun-a-man-and-3-plant-high-students-head/news-breaking/

Sounds to me like the guy was defending his family. There is no excuse for snot-nosed kids coming around to harrass people at 3:30 in the morning, and this had been building for a few days.

He fired the gun when one of the kids came at him.

What he might have done differently was to announce a Citizen's Arrest to officially take control of the situation...although I can't say I have any knowledge of that aspect of Florida law.

Defending his family would have been to stay in the house, call the cops, and if they tried to come in, then you can shoot them (See FL's castle doctrine).  You can also protect your assets and get in between if they are coming at your car.

If you were defending your possessions and they came at you and you are on your property, and they kept approacing after warning and you were in "fear of your life" at that point (maybe because of the sheer number, size, or weapons they had) then you can shoot. 

You cannot go out on the street, order people out of a car, and hold them at gunpoint.  That goes beyond the laws within our state (and probalby most states).   In addition, there is no such thing as a warning shot.  Most counties have laws against discharging weapons (in the air, ground, or at a target) and it is illegal.  The exception is if being used in self defense in a lawful manner.

The guy overstepped his bounds and should have handled it differently. He should be in trouble from a legal perspective.  Right or wrong, how those kids acted, did not equal his response.  You can pretty much only respond with a reasonable level of force if taking out a weapon (by law).  So if one teen were approaching with his hands up like he was going to fight you, let him hit you, and then if he continues to hit you, then you can use the force (assuming he isn't half your size, etc). 

The kids, should have their parents kick their collective arses for putting themselves in this position to begin with.  And if those texts, etc, are true, Holtz needs to have his kid on the football field running suicide drills daily for the next 3 months.  If it were my kid, their life would drastically change and not for the better.  All freedom's they had had, would go away immediately. 

Guess you haven't met Trey yet.  If his friends were his size, one punch and you're down.  Really, who is going to let anyone approach them and take the first punch? 

[swamprat]

These articles are way short on facts and witnesses. Everything is based on the word of Canonico and Cochran. I see no other witnesses, no police reports, nothing else. Just Canonico's lawyer and him. Based on what facts I can glean from this poorly investigated reporting....

1. The alleged perpetrators brandished no weapons. Cochran said he was threatened that they were going to use bats, but none were produced. Sorry, but having been a father figure to several teenagers of my own, I'm not taking poor McKenzie at his word.

2. The articles plainly state that the kids were parked in front of a neighbor's house, not his. The alleged perps were not on his property.

3. He left his property and approached them, brandishing a weapon, and perpetuating the situation, not getting it under control, and placing everyone in imminent danger.

4. You never fire a weapon into the ground. WTF? Holy ****! What an ******* idiot!

Canonico has no business owning a weapon and deserves everything he gets.

Having said that, Skip needs to plant a #14 shoe straight up Trey's ass, sell that **** Mustang, and make the kid finance his own ride. He has no business being out at that time of night at that age.

Oh BTW. The article penned by ELAINE SILVESTRINI is the worst piece of writing I think I have ever read, anywhere.

[IncrediBULL]

More details here: http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/sep/17/171614/tale-of-a-gun-a-man-and-3-plant-high-students-head/news-breaking/

Sounds to me like the guy was defending his family. There is no excuse for snot-nosed kids coming around to harrass people at 3:30 in the morning, and this had been building for a few days.

He fired the gun when one of the kids came at him.

What he might have done differently was to announce a Citizen's Arrest to officially take control of the situation...although I can't say I have any knowledge of that aspect of Florida law.

Defending his family would have been to stay in the house, call the cops, and if they tried to come in, then you can shoot them (See FL's castle doctrine).  You can also protect your assets and get in between if they are coming at your car.

If you were defending your possessions and they came at you and you are on your property, and they kept approacing after warning and you were in "fear of your life" at that point (maybe because of the sheer number, size, or weapons they had) then you can shoot. 

You cannot go out on the street, order people out of a car, and hold them at gunpoint.  That goes beyond the laws within our state (and probalby most states).   In addition, there is no such thing as a warning shot.  Most counties have laws against discharging weapons (in the air, ground, or at a target) and it is illegal.  The exception is if being used in self defense in a lawful manner.

The guy overstepped his bounds and should have handled it differently. He should be in trouble from a legal perspective.  Right or wrong, how those kids acted, did not equal his response.  You can pretty much only respond with a reasonable level of force if taking out a weapon (by law).  So if one teen were approaching with his hands up like he was going to fight you, let him hit you, and then if he continues to hit you, then you can use the force (assuming he isn't half your size, etc). 

The kids, should have their parents kick their collective arses for putting themselves in this position to begin with.  And if those texts, etc, are true, Holtz needs to have his kid on the football field running suicide drills daily for the next 3 months.  If it were my kid, their life would drastically change and not for the better.  All freedom's they had had, would go away immediately. 

Guess you haven't met Trey yet.  If his friends were his size, one punch and you're down.  Really, who is going to let anyone approach them and take the first punch? 

Then stay in your house with the doors locked, lights on, and guns drawn in case they try to enter.  That you can legally do.  Otherwise, approaching teens in a car with a gun, on the street (ie not on your property) means a night in the pokey.