Skip talked to O'liar...Why?

[slick1ru2]

Would you rather USF play Wofford or UCF?

The whole point is that these games don't exist in a vacuum, and USF doesn't have to make a choice on one single game the way you've presented the dilemma here. The question REALLY is, "would you rather USF play 12 games including one against Wofford, or 12 games including one against UCF." In the context of the entire schedule, it really doesn't make a difference - "cupcake" has become quite the buzzword in the past decade in college football, but wins over UCF and Wofford are still going to be roughly equivalent. UCF is for sure a slightly (VERY slightly) more impressive win, but it's still so close that it doesn't make it worthwhile, in my opinion, to put up with their fans or make it easier on UCF's football team to rise to a BCS conference (which is exactly what would happen with wins over USF - and if there is an annual series, it's a given that UCF would <i>eventually</i> manage to win a couple).

UCF has to earn a regular shot at beating USF, I say. The Bulls beat them four straight times already, and nothing has happened in Orlando to indicate that the team is any better now than they were during that series.

I meant a regular game series so that USF is less likely to have someone pull off the schedule again and scramble to play a 1aa team because USF can't afford to pay even a crap 1a team to come to Tampa for one game. That is the reason USF had to sub a 1aa team when Florida Int'l pulled out. money. UCF would never pull off our schedule, and USF makes more money on Tampa games because of UCF fans and away games due to reduced travel costs. You might think a win over UCF is only slightly better then Wofford but the BCS voters puts more weight on the UCF win. Especially if UCF is doing great in their season, a win against them means votes, more then against an undefeated Wofford. How much would a loss to a cupcake hurt USF vs a UCF loss? You sound afraid to play UCF. Yes, UCF would eventually win games. If Miami officials thought the same way you do, we would not have the Thanksgiving series. I mean really, you have some issues that sounds like hate, not competitive sportsmanship. You don't want to make it easier for UCF to get into a BCS conference or put up with their fans? LOL. Its all about the money dude, travel costs, filling stadiums. You seem to have no faith in the players or coaches at USF. Cupcake games are getting more and more expensive because the cupcakes know they can demand  more and more each year for 1 game. UGA is paying a crap team, North Texas,  for the 2013 season nearly $1 mil to fill their schedule. UGA has that kind of money. USF doesn't and those games are only going to get more expensive.

http://www.ajc.com/uga/content/sports/uga/stories/2009/06/01/georgia_pay_opponents.html

[zarnozdabull]

A BIG reason NOT to play UCF is because they aren't in a BCS conference. I bet if UCF was indeed in a BCS Conference a lot of us would change our minds regarding the series. Then again, it would probably hurt us in recruiting if they indeed joined a BCS Conference. Double-edged sword, which end is less sharp?

[AGB]

Would you rather USF play Wofford or UCF?

The whole point is that these games don't exist in a vacuum, and USF doesn't have to make a choice on one single game the way you've presented the dilemma here. The question REALLY is, "would you rather USF play 12 games including one against Wofford, or 12 games including one against UCF." In the context of the entire schedule, it really doesn't make a difference - "cupcake" has become quite the buzzword in the past decade in college football, but wins over UCF and Wofford are still going to be roughly equivalent. UCF is for sure a slightly (VERY slightly) more impressive win, but it's still so close that it doesn't make it worthwhile, in my opinion, to put up with their fans or make it easier on UCF's football team to rise to a BCS conference (which is exactly what would happen with wins over USF - and if there is an annual series, it's a given that UCF would <i>eventually</i> manage to win a couple).

UCF has to earn a regular shot at beating USF, I say. The Bulls beat them four straight times already, and nothing has happened in Orlando to indicate that the team is any better now than they were during that series.

I meant a regular game series so that USF is less likely to have someone pull off the schedule again and scramble to play a 1aa team because USF can't afford to pay even a crap 1a team to come to Tampa for one game. That is the reason USF had to sub a 1aa team when Florida Int'l pulled out. money. UCF would never pull off our schedule, and USF makes more money on Tampa games because of UCF fans and away games due to reduced travel costs.

Eh, USF was left scrambling once. It sucked, but it's no reason to alter the team's scheduling philosophy, only their contract writing.

You might think a win over UCF is only slightly better then Wofford but the BCS voters puts more weight on the UCF win.

You're going to have to provide some proof that there is a single voter who would be impressed by a win over UCF to any noteworthy degree before I believe that. I already conceded that UCF is a marginally tougher foe, but ultimately neither Wofford nor UCF is an impressive win and it doesn't make a big difference either way.

Especially if UCF is doing great in their season, a win against them means votes, more then against an undefeated Wofford.

You can use this argument for any team at any time. What it FIU goes undefeated next year? It doesn't seem much less likely than UCF putting together an impressive season. USF blew out UCF in a year in which the Knights went on to win their conference title, and nobody outside of Orlando or Tampa cared in the end. USF might as well have beaten Wofford 64-12 that week.

How much would a loss to a cupcake hurt USF vs a UCF loss? You sound afraid to play UCF. Yes, UCF would eventually win games. If Miami officials thought the same way you do, we would not have the Thanksgiving series.

This "afraid" argument gets repeated so often, and it's really so void of substance. I stated it as clearly as I could: UCF will eventually beat USF if the two teams play every year, there is no getting around that. And that loss will do more for UCF than any number of wins over the Knights will do for USF. It's a simple equation - this hypothetical series offers nothing to USF that makes up for that inevitable loss, or for tolerating their loser fans, a part of my argument you ignored completely.

I mean really, you have some issues that sounds like hate, not competitive sportsmanship. You don't want to make it easier for UCF to get into a BCS conference or put up with their fans? LOL.

Well this is certainly a helpful argument. I think I responded with a post trying to have an intelligent discussion. You respond with "LOL" and senseless twisting of my words.

In any case, the only thing I've said is that I see no reason to dump the Woffords of the world in favor of UCF; you can extrapolate all you want, but that's all I've said.

Its all about the money dude, travel costs, filling stadiums.

Wait, which is it? Is it "all about the money," or should USF schedule UCF because they are more competitive than FCS teams? I assume, if it's "all about the money," that you would have no problem with road trips to play FAU or FIU every season, since that would be cheaper than traveling to play teams in other states? USF has already made one trip like that, and I thought it was ridiculous. As far as I'm concerned, if the non-BCS teams in Florida want to play USF, they are more than welcome to come to Tampa any time they want. There's no need for USF to be traveling to their stadiums.

And if you would have a problem with that, if it's not "all about the money," why is UCF acceptable to you? UCF *****. If USF needs higher quality opponents, surely we can do better than a bad Conference USA team.

Yes, traveling to and from Orlando is easier and cheaper than traveling to, say, Los Angeles. But there are a huge number of teams in the eastern time zone who would make for good opponents. When Doug Woolard says USF cannot afford to travel to Atlanta to play Georgia Tech, South Carolina to play Clemson, or whatever other location and opponent in the southeast that you can think of, then I'll think this is worth worrying about. But as it is, USF was traveling to Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, and Alabama for out-of-conference games at times when the football team was much less of a revenue-generator than it is today. I think Doug Woolard can figure it out.

One final note on this: Scheduling a home-and-home series with UCF would make it harder for USF to have seven home games in half its seasons the way Woolard wants. Would the extra 10,000 or so seats UCF might help fill every two years make up for the money lost if USF can't get all the home games it wants? (I don't have a definitive answer to that question and neither do you, but I would guess the answer is "no.")

You seem to have no faith in the players or coaches at USF.

No matter how great the coaches and players are, eventually they will lose a game. I'm pretty sure I said this already.

Cupcake games are getting more and more expensive because the cupcakes know they can demand  more and more each year for 1 game. UGA is paying a crap team, North Texas,  for the 2013 season nearly $1 mil to fill their schedule. UGA has that kind of money. USF doesn't and those games are only going to get more expensive.

http://www.ajc.com/uga/content/sports/uga/stories/2009/06/01/georgia_pay_opponents.html

So maybe USF should go out and schedule home-and-home deals with quality opponents. Lower level schools demanding more money is only evidence that USF should reconsider its games against lower level schools, not that USF should start playing UCF again.

[slick1ru2]

Would you rather USF play Wofford or UCF?

The whole point is that these games don't exist in a vacuum, and USF doesn't have to make a choice on one single game the way you've presented the dilemma here. The question REALLY is, "would you rather USF play 12 games including one against Wofford, or 12 games including one against UCF." In the context of the entire schedule, it really doesn't make a difference - "cupcake" has become quite the buzzword in the past decade in college football, but wins over UCF and Wofford are still going to be roughly equivalent. UCF is for sure a slightly (VERY slightly) more impressive win, but it's still so close that it doesn't make it worthwhile, in my opinion, to put up with their fans or make it easier on UCF's football team to rise to a BCS conference (which is exactly what would happen with wins over USF - and if there is an annual series, it's a given that UCF would <i>eventually</i> manage to win a couple).

UCF has to earn a regular shot at beating USF, I say. The Bulls beat them four straight times already, and nothing has happened in Orlando to indicate that the team is any better now than they were during that series.

I meant a regular game series so that USF is less likely to have someone pull off the schedule again and scramble to play a 1aa team because USF can't afford to pay even a crap 1a team to come to Tampa for one game. That is the reason USF had to sub a 1aa team when Florida Int'l pulled out. money. UCF would never pull off our schedule, and USF makes more money on Tampa games because of UCF fans and away games due to reduced travel costs.

Eh, USF was left scrambling once. It sucked, but it's no reason to alter the team's scheduling philosophy, only their contract writing.

You might think a win over UCF is only slightly better then Wofford but the BCS voters puts more weight on the UCF win.

You're going to have to provide some proof that there is a single voter who would be impressed by a win over UCF to any noteworthy degree before I believe that. I already conceded that UCF is a marginally tougher foe, but ultimately neither Wofford nor UCF is an impressive win and it doesn't make a big difference either way.

Especially if UCF is doing great in their season, a win against them means votes, more then against an undefeated Wofford.

You can use this argument for any team at any time. What it FIU goes undefeated next year? It doesn't seem much less likely than UCF putting together an impressive season. USF blew out UCF in a year in which the Knights went on to win their conference title, and nobody outside of Orlando or Tampa cared in the end. USF might as well have beaten Wofford 64-12 that week.

How much would a loss to a cupcake hurt USF vs a UCF loss? You sound afraid to play UCF. Yes, UCF would eventually win games. If Miami officials thought the same way you do, we would not have the Thanksgiving series.

This "afraid" argument gets repeated so often, and it's really so void of substance. I stated it as clearly as I could: UCF will eventually beat USF if the two teams play every year, there is no getting around that. And that loss will do more for UCF than any number of wins over the Knights will do for USF. It's a simple equation - this hypothetical series offers nothing to USF that makes up for that inevitable loss, or for tolerating their loser fans, a part of my argument you ignored completely.

I mean really, you have some issues that sounds like hate, not competitive sportsmanship. You don't want to make it easier for UCF to get into a BCS conference or put up with their fans? LOL.

Well this is certainly a helpful argument. I think I responded with a post trying to have an intelligent discussion. You respond with "LOL" and senseless twisting of my words.

In any case, the only thing I've said is that I see no reason to dump the Woffords of the world in favor of UCF; you can extrapolate all you want, but that's all I've said.

Its all about the money dude, travel costs, filling stadiums.

Wait, which is it? Is it "all about the money," or should USF schedule UCF because they are more competitive than FCS teams? I assume, if it's "all about the money," that you would have no problem with road trips to play FAU or FIU every season, since that would be cheaper than traveling to play teams in other states? USF has already made one trip like that, and I thought it was ridiculous. As far as I'm concerned, if the non-BCS teams in Florida want to play USF, they are more than welcome to come to Tampa any time they want. There's no need for USF to be traveling to their stadiums.

And if you would have a problem with that, if it's not "all about the money," why is UCF acceptable to you? UCF *****. If USF needs higher quality opponents, surely we can do better than a bad Conference USA team.

Yes, traveling to and from Orlando is easier and cheaper than traveling to, say, Los Angeles. But there are a huge number of teams in the eastern time zone who would make for good opponents. When Doug Woolard says USF cannot afford to travel to Atlanta to play Georgia Tech, South Carolina to play Clemson, or whatever other location and opponent in the southeast that you can think of, then I'll think this is worth worrying about. But as it is, USF was traveling to Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, and Alabama for out-of-conference games at times when the football team was much less of a revenue-generator than it is today. I think Doug Woolard can figure it out.

One final note on this: Scheduling a home-and-home series with UCF would make it harder for USF to have seven home games in half its seasons the way Woolard wants. Would the extra 10,000 or so seats UCF might help fill every two years make up for the money lost if USF can't get all the home games it wants? (I don't have a definitive answer to that question and neither do you, but I would guess the answer is "no.")

You seem to have no faith in the players or coaches at USF.

No matter how great the coaches and players are, eventually they will lose a game. I'm pretty sure I said this already.

Cupcake games are getting more and more expensive because the cupcakes know they can demand  more and more each year for 1 game. UGA is paying a crap team, North Texas,  for the 2013 season nearly $1 mil to fill their schedule. UGA has that kind of money. USF doesn't and those games are only going to get more expensive.

http://www.ajc.com/uga/content/sports/uga/stories/2009/06/01/georgia_pay_opponents.html

So maybe USF should go out and schedule home-and-home deals with quality opponents. Lower level schools demanding more money is only evidence that USF should reconsider its games against lower level schools, not that USF should start playing UCF again.

Pass all these wonderful reasons to Woolard after he announces UCF is back the schedule. Or the worse case scenerios when the Big East gets raided and either UCF gets an invite or USF goes crawling back to Conf USA after the ACC and SEC offer no invite. I wonder what happens if CUSA says take a hike, you left us already once before for the BCS. Sun Belt? Independent? UCF is more then likely coming back on the schedule no matter who doesn't want it or think it doesn't make sense. Check the FSU boards for all the people who didn't want to play USF. It happened anyway.

[Triple B]

Would you rather USF play Wofford or UCF?

Wofford.

[SRQ]

Woolard should publically offer UCF the same scheduling deal that WVU gave to Marshall.  Then Skip can simply refer to it every time it comes up.

[Guest nybullsfan]

Woolard should publically offer UCF the same scheduling deal that WVU gave to Marshall.  Then Skip can simply refer to it every time it comes up.

According to Wikipedia: "the current format ... includes four games in Morgantown, two in Huntington, and the remaining game will be decided by who wins two out of the first three games"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_of_Coal_Bowl

So you're proposing the following 7-game contract:

Tampa, Orlando, Tampa, Tampa, Orlando, Tampa, TBD

Seems reasonable, but it took intervention by the WV governor to get the deal done. Might need the same level of politics to do it in FL

[Bull Dozer]

Woolard should publically offer UCF the same scheduling deal that WVU gave to Marshall.  Then Skip can simply refer to it every time it comes up.

If the series is renewed and UCF is still non BCS this is the way it should be handled.  Be very public about it too let it be known that we will play you but on our terms, especially since we swept the previous series.  If you use this tactic the "U guyz iz da skared" argument goes right out of the window. 

[Triple B]

Woolard should publically offer UCF the same scheduling deal that WVU gave to Marshall.  Then Skip can simply refer to it every time it comes up.

According to Wikipedia: "the current format ... includes four games in Morgantown, two in Huntington, and the remaining game will be decided by who wins two out of the first three games"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_of_Coal_Bowl

So you're proposing the following 7-game contract:

Tampa, Orlando, Tampa, Tampa, Orlando, Tampa, TBD

Seems reasonable, but it took intervention by the WV governor to get the deal done. Might need the same level of politics to do it in FL

Intervention like that will never happen here. WVU and MU are the only two major college football programs in West Virginia. The vast majority of college football fans in that state are fans of one or the other. We are an afterthought, for the most part, here ...

[SRQ]

I'm not at all concerned about whether the series would actually happen; just wish to shut the O-hole in Mickey town