Fire Joe Maddon!

[Carolina_Bull]

I wish that 4 days later people would realize that its an extremely select few who are on here actually saying that DW should have walked into CJL's office this week and told him to pack up and get out.

The majority I believe are being quite rational in stating that CJL needs to take some responsibility (and heat) for the performance of a team that we feel has underachieved to this point. Season after season its stated that our goal is to win the BE first with everything that comes after being secondary.

Well every season we have been in the BE we have put ourselves "in the hole" by losing our 1st or 2nd conference game. The two years we didn't lose our 1st conference game ('05 and '07) we were at home and "amped up" because we were playing high ranked opponents (Louisville and WVU).

The past two years we have started strong and hit the wall once conference play rolled around. Including this season we are 13-11 in conference games, with 4 of those wins being against a putrid Syracuse team.

Thus far it seems that the history of this team is we play well and get a great number of wins against teams that don't see us year after year, but when it comes down to playing teams that have a body of work against us we eventually stumble. To date we are only above .500 against 2 of 7 conference opponents (the perrenial pre-season favorite WVU and the aforementioned Syracuse) and continuing that trend will not win you many conference titles.

All that being said, the point that most are trying to make is eventually it comes down to coaching and eventually the time will come where all eyes are going to point to the Head Coach. We all say that CJL is loyal to a fault with his assistants and we cannot be the same with CJL if the results are constant 3, 4 or 5 loss seasons.

Exactly.

We are 9-6 in our last 15 games with games against Syracuse (twice), Tennessee Martin and FIU included.  We also achieved virtually every defensive record for ineptitude in a 75 year old bowl game during that span.  This isn't a knee jerk reaction to a loss.  Questions need to be asked.

[Bull94]

This is quite possibly the dumbest comparison ever. You're comparing an overachieving team and manager to an underachieving coach and team.

Winning the AL East is equivalent to winning the SEC. Losing in the world series is equivalent to losing the NC game.

Do you think anyone on here would want changes if we won the SEC or lost the NC game? No. We would be calling for raises around the board.

We are in the worst BCS conference by far and we are currently in 7th place. We will be lucky to match the 4-3 conference record of the past 3 years at this rate.

I'm not sure what the problem is but it starts at the top and Leavitt needs to be held accountable. I'm tired of the young program excuse. There are other young D-1a programs that have far more disadvantages and have done more than we have. BSU and UConn for starters. How do you even get recruits to Idaho??

Leavitt's teams are called inconsistant but I disagree. We can always be counted on to win a game or two that we shouldn't and lose 2 or 3 that we shouldn't. It seems like 9-3 or 8-4 every year will be the norm (4-3 conference).

All I want is for them is to win the BE. That's not too much to ask for especially considering how down this conference is and it's frustrating to be all but eliminated from the race before November.

[Minotaur]

So USF is overachieving, playing solid fundamental ball and using its players to their full potential to win the hardest Division/League/Conference Championship. If so then your sardonic analogy is accurate.

The only things that the two teams/coaches have in common is about the same timetable and tiny budgets.

[GarySJ]

the comparison between Maddon and Leavitt/Gregory and the Rays/Bulls is not a valid one.

under Maddon, the Rays won their division.  they won the League.  they went to the World Series.

have the Bulls ever won a conference title or gone to a BCS bowl [much less a championship game the way the Rays went to the championship series] under Leavitt?

no?

well then, your attempt at tongue in cheek sarcasm has failed miserably, Gary.

So you think my original post was off-base and ridiculous?

Good.

THAT WAS THE POINT.

It's called "exaggeration."

The point was, "This is what you people sound like."

your intentions with this thread are not lost on me

Clearly, they were.

Same goes for the rest of you who made similar responses. Though my personal favorite was the claim that the Leavitt-Maddon comparison was invalid, but a comparison to Lou Piniella (whose best winning percentage in Tampa was .435) WAS valid. I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad.

[BigShoop]

I wish that 4 days later people would realize that its an extremely select few who are on here actually saying that DW should have walked into CJL's office this week and told him to pack up and get out.

The majority I believe are being quite rational in stating that CJL needs to take some responsibility (and heat) for the performance of a team that we feel has underachieved to this point. Season after season its stated that our goal is to win the BE first with everything that comes after being secondary.

Well every season we have been in the BE we have put ourselves "in the hole" by losing our 1st or 2nd conference game. The two years we didn't lose our 1st conference game ('05 and '07) we were at home and "amped up" because we were playing high ranked opponents (Louisville and WVU).

The past two years we have started strong and hit the wall once conference play rolled around. Including this season we are 13-11 in conference games, with 4 of those wins being against a putrid Syracuse team.

Thus far it seems that the history of this team is we play well and get a great number of wins against teams that don't see us year after year, but when it comes down to playing teams that have a body of work against us we eventually stumble. To date we are only above .500 against 2 of 7 conference opponents (the perrenial pre-season favorite WVU and the aforementioned Syracuse) and continuing that trend will not win you many conference titles.

All that being said, the point that most are trying to make is eventually it comes down to coaching and eventually the time will come where all eyes are going to point to the Head Coach. We all say that CJL is loyal to a fault with his assistants and we cannot be the same with CJL if the results are constant 3, 4 or 5 loss seasons.

That right there earned Tom a free beer tonight.

The only thing I have to add: Leavitt is to the Bulls as Dungy was to the Bucs.

[Brad]

The majority I believe are being quite rational in stating that CJL needs to take some responsibility (and heat) for the performance of a team that we feel has underachieved to this point...

That right there earned Tom a free beer tonight.

I keep seeing this line (above, iin bold) tossed around as if CJL were George O'Leary and blaming his players after every game.  Is there something that I missed?  Is there some kind of statement or story somewhere that indicates Leavitt is not taking responsibility for his team?  I've not seen it.

What would make you happy, a 30 minute infomercial with Leavitt decrying the current state of USF Football with a request to give him a chance to fix it? 

What is it?

[The Sheriff]

Not a Rays fan... but here is my bone of contention. You are down to your final three innings of the season with a fresh start last night... Why not run out your game 6 starter vice a struggling middle man? I asked this question to some folks a couple days ago... Why not push everyone up in the rotation? Have your game 1 & 5 pitcher start game 7 if you make it past game 6. There was enough rest due to the rain delays and travel time to rest your game 5 starter for game 7. I am really miffed that Balfour went out in the bottom of the 6th. Someone needed to stress the urgency to Maddon about surviving game 5 first. He could deal with a game 7 loss by maybe overutilizing his pitcher in the series, but he could always contend he was at least able to get them that far. I remember seeing Randy Johnson coming into a WS game in relief for AZ back in the day. Play to win today, not tomorrow. You might never get a second chance. Looks like the Rays will be falling like the Bucs and Lightning back to mediocrity.

[The Sheriff]

Bulliever, what would your pops think? He was a pro-scout? What is wrong with my thinking?

[BigEastBeasts]

The majority I believe are being quite rational in stating that CJL needs to take some responsibility (and heat) for the performance of a team that we feel has underachieved to this point...

That right there earned Tom a free beer tonight.

I keep seeing this line (above, iin bold) tossed around as if CJL were George O'Leary and blaming his players after every game.  Is there something that I missed?  Is there some kind of statement or story somewhere that indicates Leavitt is not taking responsibility for his team?  I've not seen it.

What would make you happy, a 30 minute infomercial with Leavitt decrying the current state of USF Football with a request to give him a chance to fix it? 

What is it?

I can see your point. Perhaps "responsibility" was the wrong choice of word to convey my position. The whole point to that post was if 8-5, 9-4, 10-3 with no conference championships and trips to the PJ or Meineke or St. Pete Bowl becomes the status quo for USF football, then eventually it will come to the point where there will only be one set of shoulders for that to fall upon.

I am as big of a CJL fan as you will find. I am grateful for all he has done for the University and the program and would never have a bad word to say about him for that or for him as a person. I want us to see the success that he strives for and become the top-tier program that he has envisioned fir the past 12 years.

At the same time I am not going to be like some who have deemed him as being untouchable and putting him on the Bowden/JoePa plan where he has carte blanche and everything should be on his terms. If we are in the same position and having the same conversation 3 or 4 years from now, then it is an area that is going to have to be examined.

[Skingraft]

OK you schmuck.....open your mouth again.....we lost to a very weak cinci team...their QB has only one viable arm....yes I said plateud.....and now I'm right again.....and as far as fair weather fans......don't open your suck unless you know what your talking about.......jerk off

It's obvious the Rays have plateaued and will never win a championship, like the Chicago Cubs.

The Rays are by far the most talented team in the Major Leagues and yet they continue to underachieve.

If we make a change now we can get a manager who can succeed in the playoffs, like Willie Randolph.

How long will you Kool-Aid drinkers continue to support this man?

Longoria hit only .254 in the playoffs and is overrated.

We'll probably lose games to the Red Sox, Blue Jays, and those crappy light-years-beneath-us Yankees again next year.

Is anyone else not disappointed with the outcome of last night's game?

Stop accepting mediocrity!

(NOTE: This post is not off-topic.)