Something That Bugs Me/Many Others

[sparkybull]

USF is now 1-24 (or 23, I lost count lmfao) against FBS opponents since 2020. I cannot imagine another major program that would endure this level of consistent failure without making a coaching change. But we.... we gave an EXTENSION to this coach even when he was essentially winless and unproven under the guise of stability.

• we also gave an extension to a MBB coach who led our team to the worst 3 point shot % in the nation - dead last #350 something 

What bugs me is that USF is doing something no program (that takes itself seriously) would be doing.

After Marcus Freeman struggled in the first few games as ND coach, people were calling for him to be fired. At ND, winning is the expectation, and you wont last more than one season with the Irish if you cant win multiple games. At Nebraska, Frost was pulling out some wins which kept him afloat, but the program wasted no time this season to cut him off because enough was enough. ASU fired Herm Edwards after an embarrassing loss, even though just last season they were in the top 25 (but, had recruiting scandal issues) - they know their worth, and they said "enough is enough".

They all have some sort of standards. Even a 6 win season isnt good enough.

Here at USF, 1 FBS win over 3 seasons is clearly enough, as long as extracurricular variables such as "culture" are in place.

Again, it bugs me that USF basically has no standards in keeping a 1-24* against FBS coach. we're okay with losing if that means we have stability.

I could go on and on - it doesnt solve anything. But this continued investment in a coach that clearly has no idea what he is doing is unacceptable.

USF is in a very, very bad place until CJS leaves - or we suddenly win more than 6 games. 

NOTE: i'm ok with the concept of a rebuild season. I can accept a season that is sort of rough but with good wins like MOST teams do. however for 3 seasons we have not been able to win. there is no rebuild, there is only regression, and nothing anyone argues on the contrary can be correct, because I will just send you to this link: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/south-florida/index.html

Edited October 16, 2022 by sparkybull

[thekidnapper]

I think there are two camps left when it comes to CJS: people who want him gone immediately no matter the cost and those that assume we can't afford to fire him financially so we are coping with what we have. I guess the question back would be, if we could afford to fire him why hasn't it happened yet?

[Outlaw]

44 minutes ago, sparkybull said:

USF is now 1-24 (or 23, I lost count lmfao) against FBS opponents since 2020. I cannot imagine another major program that would endure this level of consistent failure without making a coaching change. But we.... we gave an EXTENSION to this coach even when he was essentially winless and unproven under the guise of stability.

• we also gave an extension to a MBB coach who led our team to the worst 3 point shot % in the nation - dead last #350 something 

What bugs me is that USF is doing something no program (that takes itself seriously) would be doing.

After Marcus Freeman struggled in the first few games as ND coach, people were calling for him to be fired. At ND, winning is the expectation, and you wont last more than one season with the Irish if you cant win multiple games. At Nebraska, Frost was pulling out some wins which kept him afloat, but the program wasted no time this season to cut him off because enough was enough. ASU fired Herm Edwards after an embarrassing loss, even though just last season they were in the top 25 (but, had recruiting scandal issues) - they know their worth, and they said "enough is enough".

They all have some sort of standards. Even a 6 win season isnt good enough.

Here at USF, 1 FBS win over 3 seasons is clearly enough, as long as extracurricular variables such as "culture" are in place.

Again, it bugs me that USF basically has no standards in keeping a 1-24* against FBS coach. we're okay with losing if that means we have stability.

I could go on and on - it doesnt solve anything. But this continued investment in a coach that clearly has no idea what he is doing is unacceptable.

USF is in a very, very bad place until CJS leaves - or we suddenly win more than 6 games. 

NOTE: i'm ok with the concept of a rebuild season. I can accept a season that is sort of rough but with good wins like MOST teams do. however for 3 seasons we have not been able to win. there is no rebuild, there is only regression, and nothing anyone argues on the contrary can be correct, because I will just send you to this link: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/south-florida/index.html

Welcome to the club that most of us has have preaching for a long time.

[TromBull12]

It seems pretty simple to me. When you hire someone to build a program back up, you can't then fire them, without giving them time to do so. 

CCS started with CWT's recruits and Flowers. Over time he lost the team and didn't recruit well. So CJS started with a mentally downtrodden team during covid with no depth to speak of...

This year was the first year going in, that we actually had skill at all of the skilled positions. Then injury after injury after injury. How can anyone hold that against a coach? Whether you like him or not, he can't win without his starters. 

When you fire coaches knowing they never really had a chance, it looks terrible. Especially when they look worse for being associated with your program. The job then goes from being desirable, to a death nail to anyone's career. 

So, contrary to popular belief, actually look at the team play, and not at the win loss column. They have been playing worlds better. The offense looked functional even with a backup quarterback. The defense looked great until they had to live on the field. 

I'm not sold entirely on CJS, but I don't believe anyone could've done better with the hand that he's dealt right now. 

[WoolyBully]

I'm not really plugged into the thinking behind extensions. Part of me wants to think that you give a coach an extension to lock them up for future seasons (e.g., we believe you'll do great things, so we want to extend the current agreement and then, at some point in the future, we'll negotiate a new contract) based on results. If that's the case, why would you give a coach with no real track record an extension? I don't know what Scott's contract is structured like, vis-a-vis buyout dollars, but I think it might be, for USF, more poison pill than anything. P5 schools can write checks for millions of dollars to shuffle a non-performing coach out the door, but apparently, we can't. Or won't.  Don't know the reason.

Do I think he'll be fired before the end of the season? No, I don't think so. 

There's another thread on here with a line like "the best you can be..." or "the best you can get" or words to that effect. USF may not be in a position to write the sort of checks that get the attention of coaches with proven track records who WANT TO coach in the G5. So, do we rely on dumb luck in the hiring process and hope that the only guy who filled out an application works out? 'Cause if this is the result of our USF Football Coach Apprenticeship Program (USFCAP), I don't like the model. Just not seeing the ROI. 

Then again, we never really set the world on fire with our basketball program either, so maybe - just maybe - our fate is athletic mediocrity, and we just have to accept it. Hard to say. 

CORRECTION: Jeff Scott buyout at USF

Edited October 16, 2022 by WoolyBully
revised p.1, added link.

[TromBull12]

We show the world at large that we are a reasonable athletic organization. We understand the athletic program is in bad shape and we will give you an honest shot at fixing it. That's why you give the extension.

[HyperBullee]

4 hours ago, TromBull12 said:

It seems pretty simple to me. When you hire someone to build a program back up, you can't then fire them, without giving them time to do so. 

CCS started with CWT's recruits and Flowers. Over time he lost the team and didn't recruit well. So CJS started with a mentally downtrodden team during covid with no depth to speak of...

This year was the first year going in, that we actually had skill at all of the skilled positions. Then injury after injury after injury. How can anyone hold that against a coach? Whether you like him or not, he can't win without his starters. 

When you fire coaches knowing they never really had a chance, it looks terrible. Especially when they look worse for being associated with your program. The job then goes from being desirable, to a death nail to anyone's career. 

So, contrary to popular belief, actually look at the team play, and not at the win loss column. They have been playing worlds better. The offense looked functional even with a backup quarterback. The defense looked great until they had to live on the field. 

I'm not sold entirely on CJS, but I don't believe anyone could've done better with the hand that he's dealt right now. 

USF would effectively become FIU if CJS is fired at the “wrong” time. And with the current climate in CFB (and general), it wouldn’t surprise me to find out that USF isn’t pulling the plug because they genuinely like him and what he brings to the department at the moment in other facets while hoping the wins eventually stack up for him rather than prospecting/projecting for the next guy.

[Jim Johnson]

1 minute ago, HyperBullee said:

USF would effectively become FIU if CJS is fired at the “wrong” time. And with the current climate in CFB (and general), it wouldn’t surprise me to find out that USF isn’t pulling the plug because they genuinely like him and what he brings to the department at the moment in other facets while hoping the wins eventually stack up for him rather than prospecting/projecting for the next guy.

Some people here would say that USF has effectively became FIU already.

[CycleBull]

1 minute ago, HyperBullee said:

USF would effectively become FIU if CJS is fired at the “wrong” time. And with the current climate in CFB (and general), it wouldn’t surprise me to find out that USF isn’t pulling the plug because they genuinely like him and what he brings to the department at the moment in other facets while hoping the wins eventually stack up for him rather than prospecting/projecting for the next guy.

I think USF genuinely likes CJS. The problem is CJS needs better support around home because he isn’t it. Restructure his contract so we can pay for better support around him. Once we get that staff and start winning, hopefully he will be plucked away and we can get a coach, promote, but get this situation from behind us.

[Boomer]

4 hours ago, TromBull12 said:

We show the world at large that we are a reasonable athletic organization. We understand the athletic program is in bad shape and we will give you an honest shot at fixing it. That's why you give the extension.

By “the world” you mean future coaches you may want to lure someday. The problem is that recruits only have a few years of eligibility, and I can’t imagine a program having this much patience is attractive to them.