Holtz or Strong

[JTrue]

35 minutes ago, Bull Dozer said:

Really without the designed vs improvised run stats we're all just spinning wheels (not all runs are equal) . Reason is that's what Holtz could control on game day. That is literally the only way he could assert the will to do it without sitting BJ for running which he obviously want going to do with Eveld and Floyd behind him. 

Sure, but let me rephrase. I don’t believe there’s any truth to the claim that xCSH “tried to turn BJ into a pocket passer.” If people want to argue that Holtz tried to get BJ to run less, absolutely. Tried to protect his health with less designed run plays, I believe that, too. But to say he tried to get him to be a pocket passer when he was running 10+ times a game for 3 years? Designed or improvised, that’s a lot of running for a QB. 

[Bull Dozer]

5 minutes ago, JTrue said:

Sure, but let me rephrase. I don’t believe there’s any truth to the claim that xCSH “tried to turn BJ into a pocket passer.” If people want to argue that Holtz tried to get BJ to run less, absolutely. Tried to protect his health with less designed run plays, I believe that, too. But to say he tried to get him to be a pocket passer when he was running 10+ times a game for 3 years? Designed or improvised, that’s a lot of running for a QB. 

A coach can't control when a QB tucks it and runs if he's the only viable QB. What could he have realistically to prevent that? Literally nothing when the guys behind him were such a step down. There was literally no recourse especially during BJ's years when he had had no weapons and was constantly running for his life. "Hey, keeping your eyes downfield and don't run it" doesn't exactly resonate when your line is terrible. 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Bull Dozer

[JTrue]

Just now, Bull Dozer said:

A coach can't control when a QB tucks it and runs if he's the only viable QB. What could he have realistically to prevent that? Literally nothing when the guys behind him were such a step down. There was literally no recourse especially during BJ's years when he had had no weapons and was constantly running for his life. "Hey, keeping your eyes downfield and don't run it" doesn't exactly resonate when you your line is terrible. 

I agree with all of that, but I still don’t believe the rumor he tried to force him to be a pocket passer. Run less, absolutely.

[DELdaBull]

At least teach him how to slide, get out of bounds, or throw it away.

We have always sucked at the throw it away part of being QB. 

[Bull Dozer]

15 minutes ago, DELdaBull said:

At least teach him how to slide, get out of bounds, or throw it away.

We have always sucked at the throw it away part of being QB. 

Flowers was the best we ever had at throwing it away. It was his most underrated skill. He took **** good care of the football

Edited September 2, 2019 by Bull Dozer

[Bull Dozer]

38 minutes ago, JTrue said:

I agree with all of that, but I still don’t believe the rumor he tried to force him to be a pocket passer. Run less, absolutely.

CR had kind of confirmed it though. What exactly is don't run and keep your eyes down field other than making that player a pocket passer? You don't have to believe it but it is kind of is what is at this point. Also turning him into a pocket passer and running him less to protect him kind of of go hand in hand. We could basically put this to bed with the comparative running stats I mentioned but we're basically as close as we can be to confirming this myth without those if you choose to believe or not 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Bull Dozer

[JTrue]

11 minutes ago, Bull Dozer said:

CR had kind of confirmed it though. What exactly is don't run and keep your eyes down field other than making that player a pocket passer? You don't have to believe it but it is kind of is what is at this point. Also turning him into a pocket passer and running him less to protect him kind of of go hand in hand. We could basically put this to bed with the comparative running stats I mentioned but we're basically as close as we can be to confirming this myth without those if you choose to believe or not 

I think we have different definitions of pocket passer. 

[Bull Dozer]

Just now, JTrue said:

I think we have different definitions of pocket passer. 

Possibly. Either way it's a moot point. BJ was not the reason why Skip didn't succeed here. He one of the Bright spots in that era regardless of of what Skip did or didn't do. 

[JTrue]

45 minutes ago, Bull Dozer said:

Possibly. Either way it's a moot point. BJ was not the reason why Skip didn't succeed here. He one of the Bright spots in that era regardless of of what Skip did or didn't do. 

100%

[JTrue]

For ***** and giggles, I watched our first drive against UF the year we'd be assuming Holtz tried to make BJ a pocket passer. Yes, I know this is beating a dead horse @Bull Dozer. I skipped our first game because a) I assume we'd be conservative against Stony Brook and b) I didn't bother to look for it online. But here's our first drive breakdown.

1 dropped snap

3 handoffs to the HB where BJ faked like he was going to run, could be a read option, could be a designed HB run, I won't speculate

1 QB draw

5 definite options, 2 were pitches to the HB, 3 BJ held onto it and ran

1 QB sneak

1 HB toss

2 play action passes

3 designed passes

0 times he took off running with a breakdown in the play and he decided to run on his own

So in the second game of Holtz trying to make BJ a pocket passer, he ran the ball 5 designed times (with 2 others where it could have been an option) out of 17 plays on the first drive.

Edit: First and second drive against Stony Brook (I found it online)

1 pass TD on the first throw

2 HB handoffs

2 designed passes

1 play action and thrown away rather than running

1 scramble and throw that could have been competition 

Funny thing, the announcers were talking about how USF would love to not have a QB lead the team in rushing this year and it shows BJ's maturity as a QB that he didn't take off and run when coverage broke down.

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by JTrue