QF on Inside College Football at 10:40

[Bullgang]

I hope Q makes it to the NFL and make a good living so he can help out his family and give his daughter a good future. Seems like he really really wants to take his family out of the area he grew up in. He is such a humble, kind, and hardworking person, so I know he'll do great at whatever he wants to do in life. I hope nothing but the best for him. He help turn around our football program and so I will always be rooting for him in life and whatever team he makes it to at the next level. I have to give our coaches credit for keeping our star players out of trouble (Mack, Flowers, Adams, Nichols).

[The Great 8]

7 hours ago, ajc1228 said:

Im not sure how Q wasn't the best player last season. He out rushed Mack in both yards and TD's on top of his passing stats. I mean if you want to look past the numbers then you gotta look at the offensive line not necessarily Mack. I don't know much about Jenkin's career at USF but I was at USF for JPP and I don't think a one year player on a team that didn't win the conference can be in the running for best player to step on campus, I just think you would have to do more than play 12 games be considered better than what Q has provided. I think in the conversation of who's the GOAT there will always be a debate. Flowers has the easiest case to make. 

QB's have high utilization rates, especially in college, especially if you're dual threat. If utilization/stats is your only criterion then literally only QB's can ever be in the discussion as best player. Is Charles Woodson a better player than Flowers? Not based on utilization or stats. But, he's an all-time great corner in football history.

"Highest utilization" is not equal to "best". There's a reason Mack was our highest drafted offensive player in history and a reason why Flowers probably won't be drafted at all. Likewise, there's a reason Jenkins was a 1st rounder and pro bowler. He'd never get the "utilization" of a Flowers while playing at CB, but his mere presence stopped people throwing to an entire side of the field. Even though Trae Williams put up better "stats" because that's the direction the ball went.

There's more to "best" than stats. But, yes, Flowers is our "best" statistical player. That's not the same as the most talented, the most skilled at his position relative to his peers, the most likely to succeed post-USF, etc. Mack and Jenkins very obviously held more of those qualities than Flowers does, IMHO.

Edited October 5, 2017 by The Great 8

[BrassBulls12]

19 minutes ago, The Great 8 said:

QB's have high utilization rates, especially in college, especially if you're dual threat. If utilization/stats is your only criterion then literally only QB's can ever be in the discussion as best player. Is Charles Woodson a better player than Flowers? Not based on utilization or stats. But, he's an all-time great corner in football history.

"Highest utilization" is not equal to "best". There's a reason Mack was our highest drafted offensive player in history and a reason why Flowers probably won't be drafted at all. Likewise, there's a reason Jenkins was a 1st rounder and pro bowler. He'd never get the "utilization" of a Flowers while playing at CB, but his mere presence stopped people throwing to an entire side of the field. Even though Trae Williams put up better "stats" because that's the direction the ball went.

There's more to "best" than stats. But, yes, Flowers is our "best" statistical player. That's not the same as the most talented, the most skilled at his position relative to his peers, the most likely to succeed post-USF, etc. Mack and Jenkins very obviously held more of those qualities than Flowers does, IMHO.

So you're criteria for best USF player has more to do with what happens in the NFL? 

Edited October 5, 2017 by ajc1228

[CousinRicky]

1 hour ago, The Great 8 said:

QB's have high utilization rates, especially in college, especially if you're dual threat. If utilization/stats is your only criterion then literally only QB's can ever be in the discussion as best player. Is Charles Woodson a better player than Flowers? Not based on utilization or stats. But, he's an all-time great corner in football history.

"Highest utilization" is not equal to "best". There's a reason Mack was our highest drafted offensive player in history and a reason why Flowers probably won't be drafted at all. Likewise, there's a reason Jenkins was a 1st rounder and pro bowler. He'd never get the "utilization" of a Flowers while playing at CB, but his mere presence stopped people throwing to an entire side of the field. Even though Trae Williams put up better "stats" because that's the direction the ball went.

There's more to "best" than stats. But, yes, Flowers is our "best" statistical player. That's not the same as the most talented, the most skilled at his position relative to his peers, the most likely to succeed post-USF, etc. Mack and Jenkins very obviously held more of those qualities than Flowers does, IMHO.

 

42 minutes ago, ajc1228 said:

So you're criteria for best USF player has more to do with what happens in the NFL? 

Methinks you totally missed his point.

[BrassBulls12]

7 hours ago, Bourbon Bull said:

 

Methinks you totally missed his point.

No understand his point, I just don't agree with it. His original post said best player, not player with then most talent. You can't measure a colleges best player based  on how talented a player is because of his draft stock or how much he used or is not used. Again it's a factor but in the conversation of greatness results matter more to me than measurables. and QB to CB refernce I just ignored because there no way to compare them even for a reference. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by ajc1228

[The Great 8]

48 minutes ago, ajc1228 said:

No understand his point, I just don't agree with it. His original post said best player, not player with then most talent. You can't measure a colleges best player based  on how talented a player is because of his draft stock or how much he used or is not used. Again it's a factor but in the conversation of greatness results matter more to me than measurables. and QB to CB refernce I just ignored because there no way to compare them even for a reference. 

If you can't just intuitively say "Yes, Charles Woodson (no idea why I'm picking him) was a better college player than Flowers" despite "no way to compare them" then there's no point in me even having this debate because youre just being a Flowers homer.

There's a lot more to "best" than high utilization and stats. I actually think Flowers has some merits to include those other things too. If Mack and Jenkins never played here (or JPP played here longer) he'd likely be that guy you're assigning him to be. I'm not trying to **** on Flowers. I'm trying to show you it's laughable to essentially narrow down "best" to QVs only, which is what you've implicitly done. But, to be fair, many fall victim to it too (see Heisman every year).

Edited October 5, 2017 by The Great 8

[rich.sessums]

On 9/26/2017 at 11:50 PM, Triple B said:

The best player to have set foot on campus passed away in 2011 ...

Who was this?  I'm drawing a blank.

[BrassBulls12]

1 hour ago, The Great 8 said:

If you can't just intuitively say "Yes, Charles Woodson (no idea why I'm picking him) was a better college player than Flowers" despite "no way to compare them" then there's no point in me even having this debate because youre just being a Flowers homer.

There's a lot more to "best" than high utilization and stats. I actually think Flowers has some merits to include those other things too. If Mack and Jenkins never played here (or JPP played here longer) he'd likely be that guy you're assigning him to be. I'm not trying to **** on Flowers. I'm trying to show you it's laughable to essentially narrow down "best" to QVs only, which is what you've implicitly done. But, to be fair, many fall victim to it too (see Heisman every year).

There's a lot of reason to end this discussion and it has nothing to do with Q vs Charles Woodson. I'm sorry that QB's get more love, its just the nature of the game. The level of difficulty at the position is higher and that has a lot to do with it. I mean, as you said there's a reason right? well there's a reason why QB's get the highest salaries in the NFL and why QB's that aren't first round talents go in the first round. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by ajc1228

[Orlando Bull]

9 minutes ago, rich.sessums said:

Who was this?  I'm drawing a blank.

Lee Roy Selmon

Question for all... was Tim Tebow the best player on the gators when he was there? Aaron Hernandez, Percy Harvin, the Pouncey's, Joe Hayden, and the list goes on... But, I think that most would say Tebow was the best player then. They also continue to churn out NFL talent, but, they have been mediocre since they haven't had a clear No. 1 QB.

You really have to define the criteria. Does Q have the most talent of anyone ever? Probably not. Jenks, Anthony Henry, JPP, Selvie, Nate Allen, Mack, Hall, K. Mitchell, Nicholas, and others could possibly make that claim. But, has any one person meant more to USF football during his time playing here? Probably not in my opinion. If Grothe had gotten to finish his senior season, he may be leading the pack. Daniels was saddled with Holtz.

Will Q go on to a long career as an NFL QB due to his amazing ability at the position... not likely. Neither did Tebow. That doesn't mean that they couldn't be the "best" player to ever walk through their schools when you look at impact on a program. You also can't dismiss JPP if you are saying "best" = "most talented" even though he only played 1 season here.

There is no right answer. If we're talking most impactful, I think it's Q hands down.

[Triple B]

3 hours ago, The Great 8 said:

There's a lot more to "best" than high utilization and stats

Unless you have specific criteria, "best" is pretty subjective based on one's opinion ...