Tom Jones Article

[CousinRicky]

 

 

He makes some good points, but if 3 seasons is enough to declare Holtz' time as "a shambles" (and I don't disagree), then 3 seasons ought to be enough to declare CWT's direction as pass/fail.

 

I'm still rooting heavily for Willie, I really like the guy and I like what he's doing to turn the players into accountable men on & off the field. Doesn't hurt he's a very solid recruiter too.

 

Go Bulls!

 

I sent him an email pointing this out and the fact that Holtz had 2 years of recruits, not 3.

 

 

 

Please elaborate.  They both took over just before signing day, does that count as year 1 or 0?

 

 

Willie was hired Dec 8th.  Signing day was Feb 7th.    

 

Skip was hired Jan 14th.  Signing Day was Feb 3rd.

 

Assume a week to get settled in and Skip had 2 weeks.  Willie had 7 - 8.

[JTrue]

 

 

 

He makes some good points, but if 3 seasons is enough to declare Holtz' time as "a shambles" (and I don't disagree), then 3 seasons ought to be enough to declare CWT's direction as pass/fail.

 

I'm still rooting heavily for Willie, I really like the guy and I like what he's doing to turn the players into accountable men on & off the field. Doesn't hurt he's a very solid recruiter too.

 

Go Bulls!

 

I sent him an email pointing this out and the fact that Holtz had 2 years of recruits, not 3.

 

 

 

Please elaborate.  They both took over just before signing day, does that count as year 1 or 0?

 

 

Willie was hired Dec 8th.  Signing day was Feb 7th.    

 

Skip was hired Jan 14th.  Signing Day was Feb 3rd.

 

Assume a week to get settled in and Skip had 2 weeks.  Willie had 7 - 8.

 

That can't be right. Everyone knows Holtz was on a golf trip from mid-January until October. 

[Brad]

How would Holtz know he was failing when his boss was giving him more money?

He served the purpose for the admin's previous mistake.

[raptorcj]

 

 

While we have hashed this out several times in the past I guess we have several hours until kickoff today and a couple days until the Bulls play.

In the article his statements are factual. CSH inherited a team that had gone bowling for several years and turned that trajectory into a downward spiral. Conversely CWT inherited CSH BAD team and has the trajectory nudging upward. No arguing with those facts...

I say this as devil's advocate because I tend to agree with you opinion-wise, but the measurement of this makes it difficult to prove. The stuff we tend to agree he's better at are more intangibles until the product on the field shows it can produce. Right now, the on-field facts likely wouldn't support an upward trajectory.

 

The only on-field facts that matter are W/L's and that trajectory did nudge upward. That is pretty much indisputable, isn't it?

Now we're in the weeds. I'm not qualified to talk about all the other stats organizations might track to show progress on the field, but I think they'd probably argue that there are other stats that matter and can show progress/decline.

[MMW]

 

 

 

He makes some good points, but if 3 seasons is enough to declare Holtz' time as "a shambles" (and I don't disagree), then 3 seasons ought to be enough to declare CWT's direction as pass/fail.

 

I'm still rooting heavily for Willie, I really like the guy and I like what he's doing to turn the players into accountable men on & off the field. Doesn't hurt he's a very solid recruiter too.

 

Go Bulls!

 

I sent him an email pointing this out and the fact that Holtz had 2 years of recruits, not 3.

 

 

 

Please elaborate.  They both took over just before signing day, does that count as year 1 or 0?

 

 

Willie was hired Dec 8th.  Signing day was Feb 7th.    

 

Skip was hired Jan 14th.  Signing Day was Feb 3rd.

 

Assume a week to get settled in and Skip had 2 weeks.  Willie had 7 - 8.

 

 

So you are counting the 5+ weeks extra CWT had as an entire year?    That doesn't sound equitable.  Is that what you are saying?

[Bulls Are We]

Before camp started I thought Willie would need to win 6 games and make a bowl to keep his job.

 

If the offense is much improved this season and we are competitive I think that could buy him another year with less than 6 wins.

 

Another 4 win season with that garbage 2014 offense and I think the Willie experiment is over. 

[CousinRicky]

 

 

 

 

He makes some good points, but if 3 seasons is enough to declare Holtz' time as "a shambles" (and I don't disagree), then 3 seasons ought to be enough to declare CWT's direction as pass/fail.

 

I'm still rooting heavily for Willie, I really like the guy and I like what he's doing to turn the players into accountable men on & off the field. Doesn't hurt he's a very solid recruiter too.

 

Go Bulls!

 

I sent him an email pointing this out and the fact that Holtz had 2 years of recruits, not 3.

 

 

 

Please elaborate.  They both took over just before signing day, does that count as year 1 or 0?

 

 

Willie was hired Dec 8th.  Signing day was Feb 7th.    

 

Skip was hired Jan 14th.  Signing Day was Feb 3rd.

 

Assume a week to get settled in and Skip had 2 weeks.  Willie had 7 - 8.

 

 

So you are counting the 5+ weeks extra CWT had as an entire year?    That doesn't sound equitable.  Is that what you are saying?

 

 

Obviously not saying he had an extra year.  But he had more time to assemble something.  The larger point is that people crucify the guy for ruining USF football because of his recruiting.  I just don't see how a person can do that in 2 years.

[CousinRicky]

Just for ha - ha's I went to Yahoo Sports recruiting ratings.  ESPN didn't allow me to go past top #25.

 

So, here is their rating (Average Stars for the following years)

 

2007 (CJL) 2.48

2008 (CJL) 2.46

2009 (CJL) 3.00

2010 (CJL/CSH) 2.85

2011 (CSH) 2.86

2012 (CSH) 3.00

2013 (CSH/Tag) 2.83

2014 (Tag) 2.89

2015 (Tag) 2.60

 

So I guess what I'm asking is how the F did Holtz kill the program with his "horrible" recruiting?  So now we can talk about coaching styles, philosophy, etc.  But can we PLEASE stop about the recruiting?

 

Forgot the link http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2015/all/all

Edited September 3, 2015 by Bourbon Bull

[Bull-Hornz]

Just mark my words (ahem), Tom's tune will change from "it's way too early" to "the time is NOW" for a new coach if the team isn't notably more solid this year. I'm ready to be patient as he recommended, but it's easy to say all that before the first ball is snapped.

Probably true that most will look at the W/L column and judge whether or not CWT should stay. 

 

I think what will be truly sticky situation is if he goes 5-7. If he does that I think Harlan will have a hard time making the decision to fire him especially if the team shows fight and loses some close games. 

[MMW]

 

 

 

 

 

He makes some good points, but if 3 seasons is enough to declare Holtz' time as "a shambles" (and I don't disagree), then 3 seasons ought to be enough to declare CWT's direction as pass/fail.

 

I'm still rooting heavily for Willie, I really like the guy and I like what he's doing to turn the players into accountable men on & off the field. Doesn't hurt he's a very solid recruiter too.

 

Go Bulls!

 

I sent him an email pointing this out and the fact that Holtz had 2 years of recruits, not 3.

 

 

 

Please elaborate.  They both took over just before signing day, does that count as year 1 or 0?

 

 

Willie was hired Dec 8th.  Signing day was Feb 7th.    

 

Skip was hired Jan 14th.  Signing Day was Feb 3rd.

 

Assume a week to get settled in and Skip had 2 weeks.  Willie had 7 - 8.

 

 

So you are counting the 5+ weeks extra CWT had as an entire year?    That doesn't sound equitable.  Is that what you are saying?

 

 

Obviously not saying he had an extra year.  But he had more time to assemble something.  The larger point is that people crucify the guy for ruining USF football because of his recruiting.  I just don't see how a person can do that in 2 years.

 

 

You can see where I am a little confused about what you are saying.  At this stage of their coaching careers they have both had 2 years worth of recruits.  

 

After this year is over they would both have had 3 years.  Just like what Jones was saying.

 

Like I said, I am not one to judge recruiting prowess but the concensus here is that he is better.  

Edited September 3, 2015 by mark_my_words