Is Woolard worth the money?

[SilverBull]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I personally don't think any AD is worth the kind of money they get in the bigs.  I am also not overwhelmed by the performance of any of our administration through all this.

 

However, I am curious:

 

Who is considered a truly top-notch AD and why?

 

I'll say this ... If I am starting an imaginary athletic department, and I could hire any AD in the country (and they had to accept my offer and money wasn't an issue). I would have a tough time choosing between Jeremy Foley of UF and Tom Jurich of Louisville.

 

You have to hand it to Foley. He has one of the largest budgets to work with and his football program hasn't had to go out of state for a regular season non-conference game since 1992.

 

OK, put Foley at USF.  Our budget, our conference, etc.  What do you think happens within five years?

 

How about we go back in time and use Jurich as our example, put him in our conference with our budget .... they now have the most valuable basketball brand in the country, multiple BCS Bowl games, and a new conference home (and did it in a smaller tv market).

 

I don't think so.   If memory serves, Louisville's athletic budget when they joined the Big East was more than ours is now.  They had better facilities. They also had a basketball team that had won a national title and was routinely nationally competitive.  They had a much more established program and national recognition.  In football, they also didn't compete for attention, recruiting and support against three in-state juggernauts.  They were not located in a town with multiple professional sports franchises. I know some will look at these kind of things as excuses but they are a reality we must overcome.  To be sure, we also have advantages that Louisville does not have, such as being located in Florida for recruiting in football and baseball, a fact of which we have clearly not taken full advantage.  I just know that being AD program like ours presents certain challenges that cannot be ignored.

 

I agree, the situation was not identical, but it was close enough to take a long look at. We have been in the same conference as them for a good while. I'll also note that USF and Louisville were the class of C-USA (during the first 10 years of the league), when looking at all sports. We actually won slightly more C-USA titles than they did. They do have more history than us.

 

By the way, I am not saying Woolard failed because we are now behind Louisville. I am just trying to make the point that Tom Jurich is an incredible AD. He had similar resources to what we have, and quite honestly, he has done amazing things with them.

 

Sorry, Mike, I don't think the situations were close at all and definitely not similar resources. As 84 pointed out, Louisville basketball had been a brand name for quite a while before CUSA and Jurich ... and with that I'm sure came a revenue stream that we probably couldn't touch with football and basketball combined. I like Jurich, too, but any experience he has at building an athletic program with resources similar to ours he didn't get at L'ville.

 

Here is an article that says when Jurich was hired in 1997 Louisville's athletic budget was 16-17 Million .... I want to say our was in the 12-14 million range. Like I said, it is not exactly the same, they had much more history, we have a better location. But it is close enough to say he built something amazing with his 16-17 million and C-USA membership.

 

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2011/nov/06/louisville-commitment-sets-model/?print=1

 

Interesting, but if you are saying that in 1997 Louisville and USF were in comparable positions, then I don't even know what to say. In 1997 Louisville was already playing football in CUSA (they weren't very good that year and, coincidentally were coached by Ron Cooper).  That was their last year before opening of their new Papa John's stadium.    Louisville may not have lived in the Taj Mahal but we were a startup football program living in a trailer park. Discounting this base in comparing Jurich's performance to that of USF's AD kind of reminds me of Bob Dole's assessment of George Bush: "He was born on third base and thought he hit a home run." 

[Mike Stuben]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I personally don't think any AD is worth the kind of money they get in the bigs.  I am also not overwhelmed by the performance of any of our administration through all this.

 

However, I am curious:

 

Who is considered a truly top-notch AD and why?

 

I'll say this ... If I am starting an imaginary athletic department, and I could hire any AD in the country (and they had to accept my offer and money wasn't an issue). I would have a tough time choosing between Jeremy Foley of UF and Tom Jurich of Louisville.

 

You have to hand it to Foley. He has one of the largest budgets to work with and his football program hasn't had to go out of state for a regular season non-conference game since 1992.

 

OK, put Foley at USF.  Our budget, our conference, etc.  What do you think happens within five years?

 

How about we go back in time and use Jurich as our example, put him in our conference with our budget .... they now have the most valuable basketball brand in the country, multiple BCS Bowl games, and a new conference home (and did it in a smaller tv market).

 

I don't think so.   If memory serves, Louisville's athletic budget when they joined the Big East was more than ours is now.  They had better facilities. They also had a basketball team that had won a national title and was routinely nationally competitive.  They had a much more established program and national recognition.  In football, they also didn't compete for attention, recruiting and support against three in-state juggernauts.  They were not located in a town with multiple professional sports franchises. I know some will look at these kind of things as excuses but they are a reality we must overcome.  To be sure, we also have advantages that Louisville does not have, such as being located in Florida for recruiting in football and baseball, a fact of which we have clearly not taken full advantage.  I just know that being AD program like ours presents certain challenges that cannot be ignored.

 

I agree, the situation was not identical, but it was close enough to take a long look at. We have been in the same conference as them for a good while. I'll also note that USF and Louisville were the class of C-USA (during the first 10 years of the league), when looking at all sports. We actually won slightly more C-USA titles than they did. They do have more history than us.

 

By the way, I am not saying Woolard failed because we are now behind Louisville. I am just trying to make the point that Tom Jurich is an incredible AD. He had similar resources to what we have, and quite honestly, he has done amazing things with them.

 

Sorry, Mike, I don't think the situations were close at all and definitely not similar resources. As 84 pointed out, Louisville basketball had been a brand name for quite a while before CUSA and Jurich ... and with that I'm sure came a revenue stream that we probably couldn't touch with football and basketball combined. I like Jurich, too, but any experience he has at building an athletic program with resources similar to ours he didn't get at L'ville.

 

Here is an article that says when Jurich was hired in 1997 Louisville's athletic budget was 16-17 Million .... I want to say our was in the 12-14 million range. Like I said, it is not exactly the same, they had much more history, we have a better location. But it is close enough to say he built something amazing with his 16-17 million and C-USA membership.

 

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2011/nov/06/louisville-commitment-sets-model/?print=1

 

Interesting, but if you are saying that in 1997 Louisville and USF were in comparable positions, then I don't even know what to say. In 1997 Louisville was already playing football in CUSA (they weren't very good that year and, coincidentally were coached by Ron Cooper).  That was their last year before opening of their new Papa John's stadium.    Louisville may not have lived in the Taj Mahal but we were a startup football program living in a trailer park. Discounting this base in comparing Jurich's performance to that of USF's AD kind of reminds me of Bob Dole's assessment of George Bush: "He was born on third base and thought he hit a home run." 

 

I really am not saying both programs were ever on true equal footing. My points are just: 1. Tom Jurich did an amazing job building a program that had a shoestring budget (compared to the big boys) and was in Conference USA. (which was a similar to where USF was at in our past). 2. USF is unique, but if we need to look for a model of a school that has taken the next step, Louisville is a good example.

[Triple B]

Doomed by the burial ground. Same as every other AD.

 

We don't need a new AD, we still need an exorcist.

 

I can try and get us a shaman from Guatemala; I think that'd work out better with less "pea soup" flying around.

 

I'm thinking more Voodoo witch doctor ... Tulane may have done something when we were first conference mates. Doesn't bode well they're back.

[SilverBull]

Interesting, but if you are saying that in 1997 Louisville and USF were in comparable positions, then I don't even know what to say. In 1997 Louisville was already playing football in CUSA (they weren't very good that year and, coincidentally were coached by Ron Cooper).  That was their last year before opening of their new Papa John's stadium.    Louisville may not have lived in the Taj Mahal but we were a startup football program living in a trailer park. Discounting this base in comparing Jurich's performance to that of USF's AD kind of reminds me of Bob Dole's assessment of George Bush: "He was born on third base and thought he hit a home run." 

 

I really am not saying both programs were ever on true equal footing. My points are just: 1. Tom Jurich did an amazing job building a program that had a shoestring budget (compared to the big boys) and was in Conference USA. (which was a similar to where USF was at in our past). 2. USF is unique, but if we need to look for a model of a school that has taken the next step, Louisville is a good example.

 

Point taken.  My not-so-simple point is we have a whole lot of issues that, to my knowledge, have not been faced by any AD in the country.  A lot of those issues are related to the current overall climate in college sports, particularly football.  Thus, I am not sure there is a candidate or model that is currently relevant.  Not to say it can't be done, it just will take a whole new approach and may not be so easily or likely accomplished as some here seem to think.  Of course we have to try even if we don't have a blueprint.  It is sort of what we did in starting football; we created the blueprint.

[usfgrad84]

Here is kind of a fun article I found to look back.  It doesn't really say so much about the budget we were working with, but it sort of brings perspective, for those who don't know or for those of us who forgot how far this program has come.  Not just since 1997, but in the last ten years.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/22/magazine/football-is-a-sucker-s-game.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

 

Throw in the fact that just 3 or 4 years ago we were playing softball on a sand lot (literally  it was a SAND lot), we had no practice fields for football, baseball's stadium was a field a cage and a fence and the BB facilities were ridiculous.

 

Again, not to take anything away from what Jurich has done at Louisville, but we were no where near close to having what they had to work with at any point in time.  As the article that someone else posted about UL.  In the early years of the growth of their football program, they had a national championship basketball program to  support their growth financially.

 

The point, as it refers to the topic of this thread, is that regardless of the won-loss records of our major sports this year.  Woolard has done a competent job duirng his tenure on an overall basis.  We may not think that college ADs should make these kinds of salaries, but this is what these positions pay.  As they say, college sports is a multi-billion dollar business.  Someone is going to make that money.

Edited March 25, 2013 by usfgrad84

[Cow Pie]

Doomed by the burial ground. Same as every other AD.

 

We don't need a new AD, we still need an exorcist.

 

I can try and get us a shaman from Guatemala; I think that'd work out better with less "pea soup" flying around.

 

Forget an exorcist or shaman, we need some full on ghostbustin action

 

[charsibb]

Here is kind of a fun article I found to look back.  It doesn't really say so much about the budget we were working with, but it sort of brings perspective, for those who don't know or for those of us who forgot how far this program has come.  Not just since 1997, but in the last ten years.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/22/magazine/football-is-a-sucker-s-game.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

 

Throw in the fact that just 3 or 4 years ago we were playing softball on a sand lot (literally  it was a SAND lot), we had no practice fields for football, baseball's stadium was a field a cage and a fence and the BB facilities were ridiculous.

 

Again, not to take anything away from what Jurich has done at Louisville, but we were no where near close to having what they had to work with at any point in time.  As the article that someone else posted about UL.  In the early years of the growth of their football program, they had a national championship basketball program to  support their growth financially.

 

The point, as it refers to the topic of this thread, is that regardless of the won-loss records of our major sports this year.  Woolard has done a competent job duirng his tenure on an overall basis.  We may not think that college ADs should make these kinds of salaries, but this is what these positions pay.  As they say, college sports is a multi-billion dollar business.  Someone is going to make that money.

 

 

GREAT article, thanks for the link. Long, but well worth the read.

 

Anybody want to guess who THIS was???? LOL

 

Because of Selmon's icon status, his box is the more coveted invitation, and Vicki Mitchell and her staff put together his list for maximum impact. They had targeted a wealthy U.S.F. graduate and Los Angeles lawyer as a potential big donor, but he had become critical of the athletic program on chat rooms devoted to U.S.F. sports. (Fund-raisers monitor such things.) Selmon called the lawyer during a trip to Los Angeles, just to warm him up, then invited him to fly in and sit in his box for the game. The lawyer accepted and showed up at the game with a friend who wore a muscle shirt. But both men fidgeted and looked impatient, then bolted at halftime.

[Triple B]

Anybody want to guess who THIS was???? LOL

Because of Selmon's icon status, his box is the more coveted invitation, and Vicki Mitchell and her staff put together his list for maximum impact. They had targeted a wealthy U.S.F. graduate and Los Angeles lawyer as a potential big donor, but he had become critical of the athletic program on chat rooms devoted to U.S.F. sports. (Fund-raisers monitor such things.) Selmon called the lawyer during a trip to Los Angeles, just to warm him up, then invited him to fly in and sit in his box for the game. The lawyer accepted and showed up at the game with a friend who wore a muscle shirt. But both men fidgeted and looked impatient, then bolted at halftime.

Holy ******* ****!! I thought you made that up. That article is 10 years old .... I had no idea he already had a rep at that time. Our football program was barely 5 years old and he was already whining?

I guess this article had been kind of referenced in the past but if it had ever been linked I obviously must have missed it ..... or forgot I read it, which is entirely likely.

[Goldenbuc]

Do any of you whining about how ucf is getting schools in their house know the particulars of the contracts? Perhaps, ucf is actually paying them AND giving up revenue from the home game. I can hear it now...."Yea we got South Carolina to come to down, but we had to give up too much revenue, just to get our ass kicked. Why didn't we just schedule a smaller school?"

 

 

LOL...no.  UCF is not paying South Carolina or Penn State or any other BCS conference school to play in Orlando.  They are 1-1 deals.  That means the BCS schools don't have to pay UCF to play at their place for one game and going to Orlando isn't a bad destination for their fans.  

 

Not to mention the timing of the scheduling.  UCF dropped BCC for PSU.  PSU had an opening in 2013 and is looking to postpone or cancel their game vs. Virginia for 2014, in which UCF and PSU are tentatively scheduled to play in Orlando.  It didn't hurt that the Nittany Lions' coach Bill O’Brien worked for O'Leary at Georgia Tech from 1995-2001.  Sometimes the right connections can make the deals happen.  Mizzou was another that was all timing.  KSU was scheduled to return their 2010 game to Orlando in 2012 and backed out, so Mizzou had some new openings, due to their new SEC schedule and worked out a deal.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Goldenbuc

[gobulls83]

Anybody want to guess who THIS was???? LOL

 

Because of Selmon's icon status, his box is the more coveted invitation, and Vicki Mitchell and her staff put together his list for maximum impact. They had targeted a wealthy U.S.F. graduate and Los Angeles lawyer as a potential big donor, but he had become critical of the athletic program on chat rooms devoted to U.S.F. sports. (Fund-raisers monitor such things.) Selmon called the lawyer during a trip to Los Angeles, just to warm him up, then invited him to fly in and sit in his box for the game. The lawyer accepted and showed up at the game with a friend who wore a muscle shirt. But both men fidgeted and looked impatient, then bolted at halftime.

 

Holy ******* ****!! I thought you made that up. That article is 10 years old .... I had no idea he already had a rep at that time. Our football program was barely 5 years old and he was already whining?

I guess this article had been kind of referenced in the past but if it had ever been linked I obviously must have missed it ..... or forgot I read it, which is entirely likely.

 

That's amazing. Knowing how senile and clueless he was from pretty much the very beginning makes it a lot easier to ignore his drivel today.