This could be the end of the Big East

[Economics_Nerd82]

Old Big East RPI:

21 Louisville

26 Cincinnati

32 Rutgers

50 Syracuse

63 Pittsburgh

85 Temple

86 Connecticut

96 South Florida

New Big East (RPI with BYU included):

17 Boise St.

26 Cincinnati

30 San Diego St.

48 UCF

51 Navy

55 BYU

58 East Carolina

77 South. Methodist

85 Temple

86 Connecticut

93 Houston

96 South Florida

105 Memphis

131 Tulane

Average RPI drops 19%. Median goes from 56.5 to 67.5.

[Economics_Nerd82]

http://espn.go.com/m...lege-basketball

Big East Catholic schools wake up?

Finally, the Big East -- the true essence of the league, not the ramshackle Ellis Island it has currently become -- is doing something.

After years of having their fate decided for them, the seven Catholic basketball-playing schools gathered with commissioner Mike Aresco in New York on Sunday to discuss their options, according to published reports confirmed and detailed by ESPN's Andy Katz and Brett McMurphy.

No decisions, votes or decisive actions were taken, but at least the seven universities -- DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall and Villanova -- that represent Dave Gavitt's original hoops-oriented vision are working to determine their future instead of having it dictated to them.

There's no doubt the options aren't great. The Catholic schools could band together, perhaps dissolve the league and forge out on their own, partnering maybe down the road with other like-minded, basketball-first institutions in the hopes of luring TV revenue.

That sounds a lot better than it likely will be, at least fiscally. If current reports are true that a new deal might net $60 to $80 million, that's an average payout to the non-FBS football schools of between $1.1 to 1.4 million a year. The Atlantic 10's television deal split with ESPN, NBC and CBS nets each school about $350,000.

That's a severe cut, and for financially strapped schools that lack FBS football revenue, every penny counts.

So it would be a calculated risk to bank -- literally and figuratively -- that the name-brand recognition of the likes of Georgetown, St. John's and Villanova will move the needle. Even if they partner with or gobble up (your point of view will determine the verb of choice) schools such as Xavier, Dayton, Saint Louis, Butler or Creighton, is it still enough to convince television bigwigs to pay top dollar for its post-football programming?

Hard to calculate.

But here's the twist in all of that: As the Big East continues to bastardize its product, adding schools that offer FBS football teams, if not competitive ones, and basketball programs, if not traditional or successful ones, those schools are only hurting their name brands anyway.

At some point, as Georgetown has to make its way with wins against Central Florida and Tulane instead of Syracuse and Louisville, there's a danger that the university's appeal is annually devalued. There's a reason the idea of adding Tulane as a full conference member, along with several of its C-USA compatriots, sent shivers down the Catholic schools' collective spines.

They recognize that, as mom always said, you are the company that you keep.

This no longer is about preserving Gavitt's vision. As much as that sweet notion tugs at the heartstrings, it's irrelevant. His once-realized dream of a basketball powerhouse conference is simply not relevant in today's climate. Football rules the roost and everyone else is along for the ride.

This is about survival. The Big Six conferences are practically putting the graffiti on the wall. If Jim Delany and some of his rival commissioners have their way, some day we will be down to four superconferences and no need for the NCAA. Anarchy will rule, Armageddon will exist and Cinderella will have to figure out how to get back to the dance.

Before all of that happens, the Big East core has to do something. In a fight-or-flight college landscape, the seven Catholic schools too long have been running around like Chicken Little turned ostrich -- simultaneously panicking that the sky is falling but sticking their heads in the sand, hoping it will all go away.

It's not going away. It's going to get worse and the schools have to gather up whatever few chips they have left and go all-in.

They are the recognizable part of the Big East brand and that name still has some meaning in certain pockets of the world. It may even have some monetary value. But not if the Catholic schools sit idly by and allow their worth to be hitched to the wagons of Conference USA schools masquerading under a Big East marquee.

There are no guarantees here. This is like playing Powerball -- you might go in together and split millions or you might go in together and wind up with nothing but a worthless ticket.

But it's time that the Big East core stops acting as though it's just some little addendum to the league and lucky to still be invited into the secret club it actually formed.

It's time to stop swallowing the company line it has been fed -- that it can't survive without the Power of the Pigskin -- without exploring whether that is really true.

College athletics right now is like the Wild West, without rules or even civility. And yet the Big East Catholic schools have been acting like, well, Catholic schoolchildren -- polite to a fault, abiding by the rules, afraid of the teacher.

It's high time they remove the white gloves from their manicured hands and get into this dirty business.

Instead of listening to and accepting what everyone else says is in their best interest, the Big East -- the real Big East -- needs to figure that out for itself.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Economics_Nerd82

[Cow Pie]

So, how would this be a bad thing, 'cause I'm just not seeing it?

TV dollars. We don't have big TV dollars now. If we get stuck going back to C-USA or Sun Belt we'd go from $5-10mil per year to about $1-2mil per year. Independent would be worse. Try paying even Willie Taggart and anything resembling a decent staff on that.

Just speculation but I very much doubt we'd ever officially go back to C-USA or Sun Belt. We're far more likely to keep the Big East name in a reformulated/restructured conference consisting of full membership or football only schools, including some or all of our recent additions..

I'm not sure this is true. If western schools return to MWC, the BE is dead without basketball schools.

What do you mean by "dead"? If you're suggesting that the remaining schools couldn't retain the Big East name and continue with a "coalition of the willing," I don't consider that "dead." I only consider the Big East "dead" if the remaining schools have no other choice but to remain independent or join a smaller conference. But so long as you've got eight members, you've got a conference, right? Why would any of the following schools HAVE to go back to a smaller conference, instead of just continuing an association with each other? (I'm honestly asking the question - there may be an answer that I just don't know):

Connecticut

Cincinnati

Temple

South Florida

Central Florida

SMU

Houston

Memphis

Tulane

ECU

I agree, also look at the bright side both us and Natti would be a senior members of this conference. UConn would be the only founding member left.

UConn 1979

Natti 2005

USF 2005

Losing the dead weight of the basketball only schools will hurt our TV money a bit, but it won't hurt it any more then the recent school losses have already done. Again like others my interest is not focused on basketball (i.e. 90% in USF football, 5% USF Ice Bulls, and then 5% spread out over USF basketball, baseball, softball, quidich, etc) so my opinion might be more different then others that are more 50-50 football/basketball.

Question... If this occurs is there any thought that Boise, San Diego, and ECU will be invited as full members? I know that the basketball only schools refused to grant these schools a full invite.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Bubba Bull

[Economics_Nerd82]

So, let me put this in dummy talk. As it is now, we essentially negotiate2 TV contracts as a single conference: basketball and football. If the Catholic-7 break off and take A-10 schools, etc and create a powerful basketball conference and we create a hodgepodge football conference (but still better than the rest of lowly conferences). Could the two conferences negotiate as one to maximize both their revenues? Similar to how unions negotiate salaries? Just a random thought.

[Economics_Nerd82]

A Big East split 'could happen,' source says

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/colleges/20121212_Time_to_Split_.html

[Cow Pie]

A Big East split 'could happen,' source says

http://www.philly.co..._to_Split_.html

This is all I want for Christmas... as the article stated even with the loss of the non-football schools the remaining Big East football schools would still stand to make considerably more TV money then they would otherwise be able to make in a lower conference. Also the article mentioned that Temple's voting rights can be made mute by some kind of Big East voting clause. The article did not go into detail about what that clause is or what it says.

I'm on board with this... once the basketball schools are gone the football schools can then bring ECU on-board as a full member, and offer an invite for full membership to Boise and San Diego, assuming they don't bolt for the PAC or run back to the MWC. The Big East football schools can also reach out to BYU and bring them on board... if I remember correctly the basketball schools ruined the deal with BYU the first time over the issue of BYU TV rights for their basketball and Olympic sports.

Right now the Big East football schools need to do everything in their power to keep Boise and San Diego happy, perhaps give them a % more of the TV $$ or something, lure BYU into the conference, and keep the Big East name/history.

They can let the basketball schools have the rights to Madison Square Gardens since its a basketball venue anyway. I'm sure we can get another one in another major market that better fits our new Southeast / Southwest footprint. Afterall we have the following cities where a new Big East Tourney can be held...

(1) Tampa/St. Pete

(2) New Orleans

(3) Cincinnati

(4) Houston

(5) Carolina's (Charlotte)

(6) Philly

(7) Dallas

(8) Orlando

Edited December 12, 2012 by Bubba Bull

[Economics_Nerd82]

A Big East split 'could happen,' source says

http://www.philly.co..._to_Split_.html

This is all I want for Christmas... as the article stated even with the loss of the non-football schools the remaining Big East football schools would still stand to make considerably more TV money then they would otherwise be able to make in a lower conference. Also the article mentioned that Temple's voting rights can be made mute by some kind of Big East voting clause. The article did not go into detail about what that clause is or what it says.

I'm on board with this... once the basketball schools are gone the football schools can then bring ECU on-board as a full member, and offer an invite for full membership to Boise and San Diego, assuming they don't bolt for the PAC or run back to the MWC. The Big East football schools can also reach out to BYU and bring them on board... if I remember correctly the basketball schools ruined the deal with BYU the first time over the issue of BYU TV rights for their basketball and Olympic sports.

Right now the Big East football schools need to do everything in their power to keep Boise and San Diego happy, perhaps give them a % more of the TV $$ or something, lure BYU into the conference, and keep the Big East name/history.

They can let the basketball schools have the rights to Madison Square Gardens since its a basketball venue anyway. I'm sure we can get another one in another major market that better fits our new Southeast / Southwest footprint. Afterall we have the following cities where a new Big East Tourney can be held...

(1) Tampa/St. Pete

(2) New Orleans

(3) Cincinnati

(4) Houston

(5) Carolina's (Charlotte)

(6) Philly

(7) Dallas

(8) Orlando

Travel for the olympic sports would be an issue. Having the tennis team travel from San Diego to Tampa or North Carolina is a cost issue.

[Bull-by-Marriage]

A Big East split 'could happen,' source says

http://www.philly.co..._to_Split_.html

This is all I want for Christmas... as the article stated even with the loss of the non-football schools the remaining Big East football schools would still stand to make considerably more TV money then they would otherwise be able to make in a lower conference. Also the article mentioned that Temple's voting rights can be made mute by some kind of Big East voting clause. The article did not go into detail about what that clause is or what it says.

I'm on board with this... once the basketball schools are gone the football schools can then bring ECU on-board as a full member, and offer an invite for full membership to Boise and San Diego, assuming they don't bolt for the PAC or run back to the MWC. The Big East football schools can also reach out to BYU and bring them on board... if I remember correctly the basketball schools ruined the deal with BYU the first time over the issue of BYU TV rights for their basketball and Olympic sports.

Right now the Big East football schools need to do everything in their power to keep Boise and San Diego happy, perhaps give them a % more of the TV $$ or something, lure BYU into the conference, and keep the Big East name/history.

They can let the basketball schools have the rights to Madison Square Gardens since its a basketball venue anyway. I'm sure we can get another one in another major market that better fits our new Southeast / Southwest footprint. Afterall we have the following cities where a new Big East Tourney can be held...

(1) Tampa/St. Pete

(2) New Orleans

(3) Cincinnati

(4) Houston

(5) Carolina's (Charlotte)

(6) Philly

(7) Dallas

(8) Orlando

Travel for the olympic sports would be an issue. Having the tennis team travel from San Diego to Tampa or North Carolina is a cost issue.

Host Olympic sports in Texas.

[charsibb]

A Big East split 'could happen,' source says

http://www.philly.co..._to_Split_.html

This is all I want for Christmas... as the article stated even with the loss of the non-football schools the remaining Big East football schools would still stand to make considerably more TV money then they would otherwise be able to make in a lower conference. Also the article mentioned that Temple's voting rights can be made mute by some kind of Big East voting clause. The article did not go into detail about what that clause is or what it says.

I'm on board with this... once the basketball schools are gone the football schools can then bring ECU on-board as a full member, and offer an invite for full membership to Boise and San Diego, assuming they don't bolt for the PAC or run back to the MWC. The Big East football schools can also reach out to BYU and bring them on board... if I remember correctly the basketball schools ruined the deal with BYU the first time over the issue of BYU TV rights for their basketball and Olympic sports.

Right now the Big East football schools need to do everything in their power to keep Boise and San Diego happy, perhaps give them a % more of the TV $$ or something, lure BYU into the conference, and keep the Big East name/history.

They can let the basketball schools have the rights to Madison Square Gardens since its a basketball venue anyway. I'm sure we can get another one in another major market that better fits our new Southeast / Southwest footprint. Afterall we have the following cities where a new Big East Tourney can be held...

(1) Tampa/St. Pete

(2) New Orleans

(3) Cincinnati

(4) Houston

(5) Carolina's (Charlotte)

(6) Philly

(7) Dallas

(8) Orlando

Travel for the olympic sports would be an issue. Having the tennis team travel from San Diego to Tampa or North Carolina is a cost issue.

Host Olympic sports in Texas.

South Padre, FTW! LOL

[Bull94]

A Big East split 'could happen,' source says

http://www.philly.co..._to_Split_.html

This is all I want for Christmas... as the article stated even with the loss of the non-football schools the remaining Big East football schools would still stand to make considerably more TV money then they would otherwise be able to make in a lower conference. Also the article mentioned that Temple's voting rights can be made mute by some kind of Big East voting clause. The article did not go into detail about what that clause is or what it says.

I'm on board with this... once the basketball schools are gone the football schools can then bring ECU on-board as a full member, and offer an invite for full membership to Boise and San Diego, assuming they don't bolt for the PAC or run back to the MWC. The Big East football schools can also reach out to BYU and bring them on board... if I remember correctly the basketball schools ruined the deal with BYU the first time over the issue of BYU TV rights for their basketball and Olympic sports.

Right now the Big East football schools need to do everything in their power to keep Boise and San Diego happy, perhaps give them a % more of the TV $$ or something, lure BYU into the conference, and keep the Big East name/history.

They can let the basketball schools have the rights to Madison Square Gardens since its a basketball venue anyway. I'm sure we can get another one in another major market that better fits our new Southeast / Southwest footprint. Afterall we have the following cities where a new Big East Tourney can be held...

(1) Tampa/St. Pete

(2) New Orleans

(3) Cincinnati

(4) Houston

(5) Carolina's (Charlotte)

(6) Philly

(7) Dallas

(8) Orlando

Travel for the olympic sports would be an issue. Having the tennis team travel from San Diego to Tampa or North Carolina is a cost issue.

Host Olympic sports in Texas.

every game would be an away game for every team. twice as much travel and hotel expenses. have fun never going to another basketball, baseball or soccer game again.

suggesting boise or san diego state could be a full member is moronic. not only would costs be an issue but these are actually studnets that need to attend class. it's one thing for football that plays once a week but basketball has a few games a week. one trip out west and they misss several days of classes.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Bull94