is USF's skid all Skip's fault, or did it begin before he got here?

[Ghost]

I think most people would readily admit we had seemed to plateau under Leavitt. I questioned whether he would get us over the hump myself. Most of us were satisfied with the 8-win 2010 because they were bringing in a new system and the team was fairly young and had very little depth. The problem is you would expect growth from year one to year two (players more familiar with the system, another year of experience, etc.) but they took a step backwards. There was still plenty of optimism for year three with Holtz and Co. telling us the team would learn from all the close losses last year and the sheer number of seniors on the team. However, it seems we're well on our way to another few steps backwards.

I'm patient enough to get through the season and see how it plays out, but I'm not particularly optimistic that it'll get any better. But at least Holtz will have a built-in excuse (and we know how he LOVES him some excuses) for next year breaking in a new QB and having a lot more youth on the team. I just feel like if he can't win with the wealth of experience on the team now, how is he going to win going forward with less experience and no noticeable increase in talent level.

this is my biggest issue. I am ok with seasons of learning and growth. I dont expect 10 win seasons year in and year out. All 3 of Holtz's years here have been primed for growth. Especially this year. 3rd year with the same system, and 24 seniors. 24!! No excuses for less than 8 wins in my opinion. Not with our schedule.

[mviusa]

The only thing I see is a rise and then a plateau being reached under Leavitt and then a precipitious fall for the last 2 years. Anyone that looks at that and comes to a conclusion any different simply has no clue what they are looking at.

That rise doesn't factor in the effects of the move to a BCS program where it took a couple of years for us to be able to recruit better athletes under the BCS label. In 2005 and we were still playing with some kids that were recruited when we were a 1AA team. It makes a difference.

Yet, the team did better in the BE in '05, '06 and '07, than it did in '08, and '09.

[Skingraft]

I think most people would readily admit we had seemed to plateau under Leavitt. I questioned whether he would get us over the hump myself. Most of us were satisfied with the 8-win 2010 because they were bringing in a new system and the team was fairly young and had very little depth. The problem is you would expect growth from year one to year two (players more familiar with the system, another year of experience, etc.) but they took a step backwards. There was still plenty of optimism for year three with Holtz and Co. telling us the team would learn from all the close losses last year and the sheer number of seniors on the team. However, it seems we're well on our way to another few steps backwards.

I'm patient enough to get through the season and see how it plays out, but I'm not particularly optimistic that it'll get any better. But at least Holtz will have a built-in excuse (and we know how he LOVES him some excuses) for next year breaking in a new QB and having a lot more youth on the team. I just feel like if he can't win with the wealth of experience on the team now, how is he going to win going forward with less experience and no noticeable increase in talent level.

this is my biggest issue. I am ok with seasons of learning and growth. I dont expect 10 win seasons year in and year out. All 3 of Holtz's years here have been primed for growth. Especially this year. 3rd year with the same system, and 24 seniors. 24!! No excuses for less than 8 wins in my opinion. Not with our schedule.

Spot on

[slbpsi63]

The fall started before him. the fall has gotten worse with him. He is our Obama.

Does that mean we have to spend 4-8 years listening to Skip's supporters tell us its all Leavitt's fault and give it time?

Isnt that happening already? We are in year two of this!!!

[Orlando Bull]

I think we're on to something here. In 2002, Leavitt lost to Arkansas, and they lost to ULM this year... That was Leavitt's best season... I'm starting to see the light.

To answer the thread title... This all falls on Skippy.

[MikeG]

that's it--- Coach Leavitt-- YOU'RE FIRED!

and this time we mean it. Now quit screwing up our football team /delusionaldan or is it plumpnationpete

[nobull.Bulls]

Skip is in charge of the team and was suppose to make us improve. We are starting to get worse. His fault

[snarling Bull]

Skip is in charge of the team and was suppose to make us improve. We are starting to get worse. His fault

Skips fault no brainer

[CousinRicky]

Simply using wins doesn't paint the whole picture though. And realistically, your point #1 is simply incorrect, as competition in the Big East has actually gotten worse over the past few years.

Looking at the Sagarin ratings, the average ranking of our Big East competitors (minus us) from 2005 through 2012 (up to this point, not necessarily accurate yet) has been:

05 (59.6) 06 (36.7) 07 (46.1) 08 (51.4) 09 (42.1) 10 (54.3) 11 (54.3) 12 (58.9)

A good portion of those early years are largely skewed by a really bad Syracuse team too. If we take a look at the top 6 Big East teams (others than us) taking out the worst ranked team in each year, then we get:

05 (50.5) 06 (30.2) 07 (35) 08 (42.7) 09 (34.7) 10 (48.3) 11 (49) 12 (55.2)

At the very least, this drop in competition should have allowed us to maintain our "plateau" while we were transitioning to a more Holtz-like football program. It hasn't though.

This is also not taking into account variables like more money for assistants or new facilities to use for recruiting leverage.

So, things haven't remained in a bubble, we have a current head coach with more resources, facing a less competetive schedule, who was brought in to get us over the hump, but not only has failed to do that yet, has actually taken us backwards despite those advantages.

But if all the teams in the BE are dropping, why would/should USF buck that trend? What is different, besides all that "Florida" talent?

[wjdiamantas]

The Leavitt "plateau" is looking pretty good right now. I'd rather have a 7-5 / 8-4 Leavitt-type with fire in his eyes than a 5-7 / 6-6 sluggish, fire-free Holtz.