open letter to non big 5 schools

[Gismo]

This is one of those intriguing message board topics that has an absolutely zero chance of becoming a reality ...

Best analysis I've seen so far.

[Triple B]

we have more access now then we had last year. 4 spots is better than 2. once they get a taste of that $500M per year the playoffs generate they will expand the playoffs and there will be more opportunities.

not sure why anyone thinks USF in entitled to anything anyway. we are a small fish. if we go undefeated and there is a SEC team, Big 12 team, Big 10 team and a pac 12 team undefeated then we should be left out. face it, they play in tougher conferences and have tougher schedules.

Oh, please. When was the last time you had B12, SEC, P12 and B1G teams who were undefeated, uh, NEVER!!!!!! It's a miracle if two teams in the country are undefeated even the podunk schools. If USF goes undefeated, with our type of schedule, we are headed to the tourney. No questions asked. We got to a ranking of no 2 with what 5 wins out of a 12 game schedule. You guys, can be so defeatist. The sky is always falling, we are always the worst team in existence and we'll never get the good recruits. You guys need a zoloft from time to time. gain a little perspective.For 22 years after I graduated, we didn't have a FB team. For the next 7 we were an also ran university. Now we can control our destiny. The new playoff selection will be like MBB, with the exception of throwing in 38 conference champions who couldn't beat dirt. We get a chance to see now, whether we can measure up, put up and if not then we should just shut up..

for reference sake AP top 25 teams undefeated

2011- 0 teams

2010- 2 teams rank No 1 and no 2.(TCU was no 2 from the MWC)

2009- 2 teams ( BSU was ranked no 4, would have been in new playoff format)

2008- 1 team (Utah wound up ranked no 2)

2007- 0 teams

2006- 1 team (BSU wound up ranked no 5. Lousy SOS, only example of undefeated out of top 4 and at this time BSU was a complete unknown)

2005- 1 team (TX ranked no 1)

2004- 3 teams( all Undefeated were in top 4)

2003- 0 teams

2002- 1 team (OSU was no 1)

So in the last 10 years if you finished undefeated and played anyone who could make breath on a mirror you would be in the top 4. BSU soon realized after 2006 that they were going to start scheduling tougher OOC games and hence their much better ranking in 2009 despite playing a weaker SOS than we have since joining the BE. Let's put the paranoia and conspiracy theories aside. if you win all your games , you are going to the Big Show. Bull 94, really didn't mean to go off on you, but unrealistic hypotheticals aren't gonna help our mental well being right now.

Here's a count of all the undefeated teams BEFORE the bowl games, which is what you need to look at, not final standings. In parentheses are the number of undefeated in the 4 conferences you mentioned:

2011- 1 team (1)

2010- 3 teams (2)

2009- 5 teams (2)

2008- 2 teams (0)

2007- 1 team (0)

2006- 2 teams (1)

2005- 2 teams (2)

2004- 5 teams (3)

2003- 1 team (1)

2002- 2 teams (1)

Bottom line is that a team with an undefeated season in a lower tier conference will by no means be a lock choice for the 4 team playoff by the guys in the committee room ... an undefeated team in one of the Big 4 conferences will always be picked first and odds are there will be 1 loss teams in those conferences that would be chosen ahead.

[mellobull]

this is your time

break away from ncaa and form your own football league

give players stipends(no more ncaa rules)

players transfer without penalty

we could accept big 5 players without them sitting out

have a 16 team playoff

only play play big 5 conference teams in our home stadiums or dont play them at all

be creative have 90 man rosters

this country is starved for football

you would get a great tv deal

build your product and big 5 will come running in a couple of years

this reminds me of start up afl league in 60s

no one thought they could do it

no one thought they could last

it would be insane to play in current system where your team HAS NO CHANCE for a championship

You got the right Idea and you are da lawyer . So when can you start drawing up the plans ? I'm ready for anything right now . The Haves taint going to let us dance at their Ball so why not .

[Reliable Source]

we have more access now then we had last year. 4 spots is better than 2. once they get a taste of that $500M per year the playoffs generate they will expand the playoffs and there will be more opportunities.

not sure why anyone thinks USF in entitled to anything anyway. we are a small fish. if we go undefeated and there is a SEC team, Big 12 team, Big 10 team and a pac 12 team undefeated then we should be left out. face it, they play in tougher conferences and have tougher schedules.

Oh, please. When was the last time you had B12, SEC, P12 and B1G teams who were undefeated, uh, NEVER!!!!!! It's a miracle if two teams in the country are undefeated even the podunk schools. If USF goes undefeated, with our type of schedule, we are headed to the tourney. No questions asked. We got to a ranking of no 2 with what 5 wins out of a 12 game schedule. You guys, can be so defeatist. The sky is always falling, we are always the worst team in existence and we'll never get the good recruits. You guys need a zoloft from time to time. gain a little perspective.For 22 years after I graduated, we didn't have a FB team. For the next 7 we were an also ran university. Now we can control our destiny. The new playoff selection will be like MBB, with the exception of throwing in 38 conference champions who couldn't beat dirt. We get a chance to see now, whether we can measure up, put up and if not then we should just shut up..

for reference sake AP top 25 teams undefeated

2011- 0 teams

2010- 2 teams rank No 1 and no 2.(TCU was no 2 from the MWC)

2009- 2 teams ( BSU was ranked no 4, would have been in new playoff format)

2008- 1 team (Utah wound up ranked no 2)

2007- 0 teams

2006- 1 team (BSU wound up ranked no 5. Lousy SOS, only example of undefeated out of top 4 and at this time BSU was a complete unknown)

2005- 1 team (TX ranked no 1)

2004- 3 teams( all Undefeated were in top 4)

2003- 0 teams

2002- 1 team (OSU was no 1)

So in the last 10 years if you finished undefeated and played anyone who could make breath on a mirror you would be in the top 4. BSU soon realized after 2006 that they were going to start scheduling tougher OOC games and hence their much better ranking in 2009 despite playing a weaker SOS than we have since joining the BE. Let's put the paranoia and conspiracy theories aside. if you win all your games , you are going to the Big Show. Bull 94, really didn't mean to go off on you, but unrealistic hypotheticals aren't gonna help our mental well being right now.

Here's a count of all the undefeated teams BEFORE the bowl games, which is what you need to look at, not final standings. In parentheses are the number of undefeated in the 4 conferences you mentioned:

2011- 1 team (1)

2010- 3 teams (2)

2009- 5 teams (2)

2008- 2 teams (0)

2007- 1 team (0)

2006- 2 teams (1)

2005- 2 teams (2)

2004- 5 teams (3)

2003- 1 team (1)

2002- 2 teams (1)

Bottom line is that a team with an undefeated season in a lower tier conference will by no means be a lock choice for the 4 team playoff by the guys in the committee room ... an undefeated team in one of the Big 4 conferences will always be picked first and odds are there will be 1 loss teams in those conferences that would be chosen ahead.

We are gonna still have bowl games, so why do you discard that game. Makes no sense. Maybe we should see how many teams are undefeated before the conference playoffs. Maybe we should just look to see how many teams are undefeated after 8 games. Undefeated, means UNDEFEATED!!!!!!

But even under your scenario, there haven't been more than 3 teams from the "power" conferences who are undefeated at some indiscriminate point in time. And the avg. is less than 2 teams. And even though the polls have never penalized an undefeated team in the fashion that you suggest it, we should be very, very, afraid that it's gonna start now. I am just not that paranoid. Sorry.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Bullwinkle

[Triple B]

we have more access now then we had last year. 4 spots is better than 2. once they get a taste of that $500M per year the playoffs generate they will expand the playoffs and there will be more opportunities.

not sure why anyone thinks USF in entitled to anything anyway. we are a small fish. if we go undefeated and there is a SEC team, Big 12 team, Big 10 team and a pac 12 team undefeated then we should be left out. face it, they play in tougher conferences and have tougher schedules.

Oh, please. When was the last time you had B12, SEC, P12 and B1G teams who were undefeated, uh, NEVER!!!!!! It's a miracle if two teams in the country are undefeated even the podunk schools. If USF goes undefeated, with our type of schedule, we are headed to the tourney. No questions asked. We got to a ranking of no 2 with what 5 wins out of a 12 game schedule. You guys, can be so defeatist. The sky is always falling, we are always the worst team in existence and we'll never get the good recruits. You guys need a zoloft from time to time. gain a little perspective.For 22 years after I graduated, we didn't have a FB team. For the next 7 we were an also ran university. Now we can control our destiny. The new playoff selection will be like MBB, with the exception of throwing in 38 conference champions who couldn't beat dirt. We get a chance to see now, whether we can measure up, put up and if not then we should just shut up..

for reference sake AP top 25 teams undefeated

2011- 0 teams

2010- 2 teams rank No 1 and no 2.(TCU was no 2 from the MWC)

2009- 2 teams ( BSU was ranked no 4, would have been in new playoff format)

2008- 1 team (Utah wound up ranked no 2)

2007- 0 teams

2006- 1 team (BSU wound up ranked no 5. Lousy SOS, only example of undefeated out of top 4 and at this time BSU was a complete unknown)

2005- 1 team (TX ranked no 1)

2004- 3 teams( all Undefeated were in top 4)

2003- 0 teams

2002- 1 team (OSU was no 1)

So in the last 10 years if you finished undefeated and played anyone who could make breath on a mirror you would be in the top 4. BSU soon realized after 2006 that they were going to start scheduling tougher OOC games and hence their much better ranking in 2009 despite playing a weaker SOS than we have since joining the BE. Let's put the paranoia and conspiracy theories aside. if you win all your games , you are going to the Big Show. Bull 94, really didn't mean to go off on you, but unrealistic hypotheticals aren't gonna help our mental well being right now.

Here's a count of all the undefeated teams BEFORE the bowl games, which is what you need to look at, not final standings. In parentheses are the number of undefeated in the 4 conferences you mentioned:

2011- 1 team (1)

2010- 3 teams (2)

2009- 5 teams (2)

2008- 2 teams (0)

2007- 1 team (0)

2006- 2 teams (1)

2005- 2 teams (2)

2004- 5 teams (3)

2003- 1 team (1)

2002- 2 teams (1)

Bottom line is that a team with an undefeated season in a lower tier conference will by no means be a lock choice for the 4 team playoff by the guys in the committee room ... an undefeated team in one of the Big 4 conferences will always be picked first and odds are there will be 1 loss teams in those conferences that would be chosen ahead.

We are gonna still have bowl games, so why do you discard that game. Makes no sense. Maybe we should see how many teams are undefeated before the conference playoffs. Maybe we should just look to see how many teams are undefeated after 8 games. Undefeated, means UNDEFEATED!!!!!!

My bad .... I guess I misunderstood that they would pick the 4 playoff teams before the bowl games are played ... so when does the committee pick the 4 teams?

[Reliable Source]

we have more access now then we had last year. 4 spots is better than 2. once they get a taste of that $500M per year the playoffs generate they will expand the playoffs and there will be more opportunities.

not sure why anyone thinks USF in entitled to anything anyway. we are a small fish. if we go undefeated and there is a SEC team, Big 12 team, Big 10 team and a pac 12 team undefeated then we should be left out. face it, they play in tougher conferences and have tougher schedules.

Oh, please. When was the last time you had B12, SEC, P12 and B1G teams who were undefeated, uh, NEVER!!!!!! It's a miracle if two teams in the country are undefeated even the podunk schools. If USF goes undefeated, with our type of schedule, we are headed to the tourney. No questions asked. We got to a ranking of no 2 with what 5 wins out of a 12 game schedule. You guys, can be so defeatist. The sky is always falling, we are always the worst team in existence and we'll never get the good recruits. You guys need a zoloft from time to time. gain a little perspective.For 22 years after I graduated, we didn't have a FB team. For the next 7 we were an also ran university. Now we can control our destiny. The new playoff selection will be like MBB, with the exception of throwing in 38 conference champions who couldn't beat dirt. We get a chance to see now, whether we can measure up, put up and if not then we should just shut up..

for reference sake AP top 25 teams undefeated

2011- 0 teams

2010- 2 teams rank No 1 and no 2.(TCU was no 2 from the MWC)

2009- 2 teams ( BSU was ranked no 4, would have been in new playoff format)

2008- 1 team (Utah wound up ranked no 2)

2007- 0 teams

2006- 1 team (BSU wound up ranked no 5. Lousy SOS, only example of undefeated out of top 4 and at this time BSU was a complete unknown)

2005- 1 team (TX ranked no 1)

2004- 3 teams( all Undefeated were in top 4)

2003- 0 teams

2002- 1 team (OSU was no 1)

So in the last 10 years if you finished undefeated and played anyone who could make breath on a mirror you would be in the top 4. BSU soon realized after 2006 that they were going to start scheduling tougher OOC games and hence their much better ranking in 2009 despite playing a weaker SOS than we have since joining the BE. Let's put the paranoia and conspiracy theories aside. if you win all your games , you are going to the Big Show. Bull 94, really didn't mean to go off on you, but unrealistic hypotheticals aren't gonna help our mental well being right now.

Here's a count of all the undefeated teams BEFORE the bowl games, which is what you need to look at, not final standings. In parentheses are the number of undefeated in the 4 conferences you mentioned:

2011- 1 team (1)

2010- 3 teams (2)

2009- 5 teams (2)

2008- 2 teams (0)

2007- 1 team (0)

2006- 2 teams (1)

2005- 2 teams (2)

2004- 5 teams (3)

2003- 1 team (1)

2002- 2 teams (1)

Bottom line is that a team with an undefeated season in a lower tier conference will by no means be a lock choice for the 4 team playoff by the guys in the committee room ... an undefeated team in one of the Big 4 conferences will always be picked first and odds are there will be 1 loss teams in those conferences that would be chosen ahead.

We are gonna still have bowl games, so why do you discard that game. Makes no sense. Maybe we should see how many teams are undefeated before the conference playoffs. Maybe we should just look to see how many teams are undefeated after 8 games. Undefeated, means UNDEFEATED!!!!!!

My bad .... I guess I misunderstood that they would pick the 4 playoff teams before the bowl games are played ... so when does the committee pick the 4 teams?

last i heard it was two weeks before playoffs begin.Now, I am not sure they even know when that's gonna be, they are still looking at NFL playoffs, and there are so many details that haven't been fleshed out, and I doubt, decided yet. They are still winging this. No payout formula, no clear layout for the semi's. I am just saying that we might not want to get in a froth until the actual details emerge. I went ballistic when I first heard the news but after further study, I think this is gonna be amazing for fledgling universities(us included) that haven't been getting BCS payout at all. Based on the calcs I've seen.Our bowl revenues may increase 5 fold over our best year. Gotta help out the little guy a lot more than it does the big guy, because there are still NCAA restrictions on how much they can do(except for GT who sends out 92 letters a day and UM who sponsors short term medical care:nudge:wink:) Edited June 28, 2012 by Bullwinkle

[Reliable Source]

One last point. I just read, I think, 6 articles about the playoff system. Every single one of them described the way it would work differently. All national writers. Probably all somewhat intelligent beings. This thing is so up in the air still. The conference presidents went into a room with an elephant in it. Their experience mimics a tale told in virtually every country in the world.

The Buddha twice uses the simile of blind men led astray. In the Canki Sutta he describes a row of blind men holding on to each other as an example of those who follow an old text that has passed down from generation to generation, much like the Christian Gospel (Matthew 15.14) saying about the blind leading the blind.^[2] In the Udana (68–69)^[3] he uses the elephant parable to describe sectarian quarrels. A king has the blind men of the capital brought to the palace, where an elephant is brought in and they are asked to describe it.

"When the blind men had each felt a part of the elephant, the king went to each of them and said to each: 'Well, blind man, have you seen the elephant? Tell me, what sort of thing is an elephant?"

The men assert the elephant is either like a pot (the blind man who felt the elephants' head), a winnowing basket (ear), a plowshare (tusk), a plow (trunk), a granary (body), a pillar (foot), a mortar (back), a pestle (tail) or a brush (tip of the tail).

The men cannot agree with one another and come to blows over the question of what it is like and their dispute delights the king. The Buddha ends the story by comparing the blind men to preachers and scholars who are blind and ignorant and hold to their own views: "Just so are these preachers and scholars holding various views blind and unseeing.... In their ignorance they are by nature quarrelsome, wrangling, and disputatious, each maintaining reality is thus and thus." The Buddha then speaks the following verse:

O how they cling and wrangle, some who claim

For preacher and monk the honored name!

For, quarreling, each to his view they cling.

Such folk see only one side of a thing.

[4]

I kinda think Buddha got it right.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Bullwinkle

[theman123]

I like a 16 team playoff but really in the last 10 years who out of the top 4 would have won a NC

Well technically, no one out of the top 2 has, since it's 1 vs. 2 currently.

[Bull94]

we have more access now then we had last year. 4 spots is better than 2. once they get a taste of that $500M per year the playoffs generate they will expand the playoffs and there will be more opportunities.

not sure why anyone thinks USF in entitled to anything anyway. we are a small fish. if we go undefeated and there is a SEC team, Big 12 team, Big 10 team and a pac 12 team undefeated then we should be left out. face it, they play in tougher conferences and have tougher schedules.

Oh, please. When was the last time you had B12, SEC, P12 and B1G teams who were undefeated, uh, NEVER!!!!!! It's a miracle if two teams in the country are undefeated even the podunk schools. If USF goes undefeated, with our type of schedule, we are headed to the tourney. No questions asked. We got to a ranking of no 2 with what 5 wins out of a 12 game schedule. You guys, can be so defeatist. The sky is always falling, we are always the worst team in existence and we'll never get the good recruits. You guys need a zoloft from time to time. gain a little perspective.For 22 years after I graduated, we didn't have a FB team. For the next 7 we were an also ran university. Now we can control our destiny. The new playoff selection will be like MBB, with the exception of throwing in 38 conference champions who couldn't beat dirt. We get a chance to see now, whether we can measure up, put up and if not then we should just shut up..

for reference sake AP top 25 teams undefeated

2011- 0 teams

2010- 2 teams rank No 1 and no 2.(TCU was no 2 from the MWC)

2009- 2 teams ( BSU was ranked no 4, would have been in new playoff format)

2008- 1 team (Utah wound up ranked no 2)

2007- 0 teams

2006- 1 team (BSU wound up ranked no 5. Lousy SOS, only example of undefeated out of top 4 and at this time BSU was a complete unknown)

2005- 1 team (TX ranked no 1)

2004- 3 teams( all Undefeated were in top 4)

2003- 0 teams

2002- 1 team (OSU was no 1)

So in the last 10 years if you finished undefeated and played anyone who could make breath on a mirror you would be in the top 4. BSU soon realized after 2006 that they were going to start scheduling tougher OOC games and hence their much better ranking in 2009 despite playing a weaker SOS than we have since joining the BE. Let's put the paranoia and conspiracy theories aside. if you win all your games , you are going to the Big Show. Bull 94, really didn't mean to go off on you, but unrealistic hypotheticals aren't gonna help our mental well being right now.

Bullwinkle,

I am in favor of the new system. I think it is much better for USF. I think our chances are much better. that being said, it is possible for 4 of the "big 4" to be undefeated. It is also possible for an undefeated BE team to be left out for a 1 loss power conference team. I won't get upset by that if that team didn't schedule aggressively enough in their OOC schedule.

I believe playoffs are chosen before bowl games so citing records after bowl games doesn't make sense.

Like I pointed out earlier, in 2009 there were 5 undefeated teams before the playoffs would have been selected. It just so happens that Cincy fell within the top 4 but it would not have been impossible for them to be passed over for a 1 loss SEC UF team or an undefeated Boise State and an undefeated TCU. There is an easy way to combat this and that is to schedule better OOC games.

BTW under the new format boise still would not have made any playoffs if you go by top 4 before bowl games. (I don't think there is a playoff format that selects teams after they play a bowl game and then goes on to playoffs)

Edited June 28, 2012 by Bull94

[Apis Bull]

Like I mentioned before, USF, or any other non, "Big 5" school has to have a real strong OOC schedule to be considered.