USF men’s hoops adds transfer Martino Brock

[Triple B]

I can see that because the kid averaged 13pts and 3ast for USA in the Sunbelt. After 2 years in college, he is what he is.

We''ll know for sure in a couple of years ... and look at it this way, Martino scored 24 points against Louisville ... DoJo never did that.  8-)

[Bullpride08]

I can see that because the kid averaged 13pts and 3ast for USA in the Sunbelt. After 2 years in college, he is what he is.

But Heath must see SOMETHING that makes him think this guy is worth taking a shot on. It's already done, so might as well hope for the best...

I don't believe Stan Heath is in any really danger of losing his job at the moment. If the team goes out next season and looks worse than it did last season, then I could see him being on a real hot seat all of 2012-13, as Triple B suggested. But I also think people are too quick to forget the 20-win season was just one year ago. Yeah the team regressed big time and nobody has stepped up to replace the explosiveness of Dominique Jones, but anyone who doesn't think that USF's overall situation in basketball isn't hard as **** is kidding themselves. I think that this guy led this team to an NIT berth that could very well have ended in an NCCA Tournament spot if a few things broke differently is impressive enough to give him more than one season to do it again.

I also expect the team to look better this year than last, because I think Heath is a pretty good coach and I think his resume as a coach supports that.

He's gone if they crap the bed after the 11-12 season.  Mark it down.  After next season Heath will have less than 3 years left on his contract.  By college coaching standards the AD MUST fire him or provide an extension.  How could Stan talk to anyone and reasonably assure them he'll be there in 2-3 years?  He can't....so you're saying he'll have another bad season next year and Doug will give him an extension?  That's the only way he can go into the 12-13 season....if Doug does nothing then he will make a very foolish move for an AD who has shown to have moxie, and that is really set this program back years further by sending Heath out to recruit with less than 3 years left-- he'd be telling HS kids that if they signed with him and showed up 13-14...he may not be there.  Yeah kids will be clammoring to sign on the dotted line for that opportunity.

And why do some of you assume Heath WANTS to bring in a transfer from the Sunbelt over some reasonably higher caliber high school players?  Are you now suggesting this was a smart ploy, and it is his sole recruiting strategy.  Are we now hoping our coach can completely ignore high school talent and stick to exclusively two year transfers?  Really?

Martino is a career 61% free throw shooter, he's a career 32% three point shooter, he shot 28% against big 6 conferences.  He has a negative assist to turnover ratio, and has quite a few turnovers.  The biggest problem with this addition is he adds nothing, albeit he fits right in with Heath's current cast of characters in the fact he's a moderately talented slasher who's an average shooter, and free throw shooter.  He'll fit right in with our motley crew, but he's not a difference maker.  With Brock at this point he is what he is....and as I described him above.  There is no fluke here he will come in, do ok against our weaker OOC opponents and struggle with consistency in the BE.

BTW, in the Louisville game Triple, remember Louisville won the game 70-98....so they basically ran away with the game with an 18pt halftime lead.  You can guess with that big of a lead some of the fans in the YUM Dome got to play too.  In the first half when we would expect most of the UL starters to be on the court Martino shot 3-7, and had 11pts.  He played 27 minutes in a blowout so he couldn't help but get 24pts.  How about the game he played before against Alabama when he had 7 turnovers and 2 assists....yeah whata playa.

I am not hating Martino as much as it is a sad testiment when this kid is the best use of a scholarship Heath could find.  That's a very bad statement to the state of our recruiting!

[Triple B]

I can see that because the kid averaged 13pts and 3ast for USA in the Sunbelt. After 2 years in college, he is what he is.

But Heath must see SOMETHING that makes him think this guy is worth taking a shot on. It's already done, so might as well hope for the best...

I don't believe Stan Heath is in any really danger of losing his job at the moment. If the team goes out next season and looks worse than it did last season, then I could see him being on a real hot seat all of 2012-13, as Triple B suggested. But I also think people are too quick to forget the 20-win season was just one year ago. Yeah the team regressed big time and nobody has stepped up to replace the explosiveness of Dominique Jones, but anyone who doesn't think that USF's overall situation in basketball isn't hard as **** is kidding themselves. I think that this guy led this team to an NIT berth that could very well have ended in an NCCA Tournament spot if a few things broke differently is impressive enough to give him more than one season to do it again.

I also expect the team to look better this year than last, because I think Heath is a pretty good coach and I think his resume as a coach supports that.

He's gone if they crap the bed after the 11-12 season.  Mark it down.  After next season Heath will have less than 3 years left on his contract.  By college coaching standards the AD MUST fire him or provide an extension.  How could Stan talk to anyone and reasonably assure them he'll be there in 2-3 years?  He can't....so you're saying he'll have another bad season next year and Doug will give him an extension?  That's the only way he can go into the 12-13 season....if Doug does nothing then he will make a very foolish move for an AD who has shown to have moxie, and that is really set this program back years further by sending Heath out to recruit with less than 3 years left-- he'd be telling HS kids that if they signed with him and showed up 13-14...he may not be there.  Yeah kids will be clammoring to sign on the dotted line for that opportunity.

After next season, Stan will have OVER 3 years left on his contract ...

[Bullpride08]

I can see that because the kid averaged 13pts and 3ast for USA in the Sunbelt. After 2 years in college, he is what he is.

But Heath must see SOMETHING that makes him think this guy is worth taking a shot on. It's already done, so might as well hope for the best...

I don't believe Stan Heath is in any really danger of losing his job at the moment. If the team goes out next season and looks worse than it did last season, then I could see him being on a real hot seat all of 2012-13, as Triple B suggested. But I also think people are too quick to forget the 20-win season was just one year ago. Yeah the team regressed big time and nobody has stepped up to replace the explosiveness of Dominique Jones, but anyone who doesn't think that USF's overall situation in basketball isn't hard as **** is kidding themselves. I think that this guy led this team to an NIT berth that could very well have ended in an NCCA Tournament spot if a few things broke differently is impressive enough to give him more than one season to do it again.

I also expect the team to look better this year than last, because I think Heath is a pretty good coach and I think his resume as a coach supports that.

He's gone if they crap the bed after the 11-12 season.  Mark it down.  After next season Heath will have less than 3 years left on his contract.  By college coaching standards the AD MUST fire him or provide an extension.  How could Stan talk to anyone and reasonably assure them he'll be there in 2-3 years?  He can't....so you're saying he'll have another bad season next year and Doug will give him an extension?  That's the only way he can go into the 12-13 season....if Doug does nothing then he will make a very foolish move for an AD who has shown to have moxie, and that is really set this program back years further by sending Heath out to recruit with less than 3 years left-- he'd be telling HS kids that if they signed with him and showed up 13-14...he may not be there.  Yeah kids will be clammoring to sign on the dotted line for that opportunity.

After next season, Stan will have OVER 3 years left on his contract ...

Let's work through it so we're on the same page.  Heath's contract concludes after the 2014-15 season.  So let's walk through the math, and assume it is May 1, 2015 when the official expiration occurs.

After May 1, 2012 he would have less than three full years on his contract.  Although he would have three seasons remaining to coach which maybe that's what you mean.  HOWEVER heading into the 2012-13 season he would go into that season with the prospect of having less than a full three years of coaching on his contract.  For example July 1 2012 til July 1, 2013 is one year, July 1, 2013, to July 1, 2014 is two years, but July 1, 2014 until May 1, 2015 is not quite a full year....hence less than three years.  Are we ok now?

You have to ask yourselves how far into this contract will Doug allow Stan to go before extending him, or firing him?  WE ALL KNOW, he won't wait until 2014-2015 season, and I would argue he wouldn't wait until after the 2013-14 because that would be less than two years left on his contract.  Everyone knows that no one can recruit with that burden. 

This would suggest the upcoming year is most likely the decision time for Doug.  Either he must extend, or make a change, and I have a hard time believing anything less than .500 would warrant an extension. 

[Triple B]

I can see that because the kid averaged 13pts and 3ast for USA in the Sunbelt. After 2 years in college, he is what he is.

But Heath must see SOMETHING that makes him think this guy is worth taking a shot on. It's already done, so might as well hope for the best...

I don't believe Stan Heath is in any really danger of losing his job at the moment. If the team goes out next season and looks worse than it did last season, then I could see him being on a real hot seat all of 2012-13, as Triple B suggested. But I also think people are too quick to forget the 20-win season was just one year ago. Yeah the team regressed big time and nobody has stepped up to replace the explosiveness of Dominique Jones, but anyone who doesn't think that USF's overall situation in basketball isn't hard as **** is kidding themselves. I think that this guy led this team to an NIT berth that could very well have ended in an NCCA Tournament spot if a few things broke differently is impressive enough to give him more than one season to do it again.

I also expect the team to look better this year than last, because I think Heath is a pretty good coach and I think his resume as a coach supports that.

He's gone if they crap the bed after the 11-12 season.  Mark it down.  After next season Heath will have less than 3 years left on his contract.  By college coaching standards the AD MUST fire him or provide an extension.  How could Stan talk to anyone and reasonably assure them he'll be there in 2-3 years?  He can't....so you're saying he'll have another bad season next year and Doug will give him an extension?  That's the only way he can go into the 12-13 season....if Doug does nothing then he will make a very foolish move for an AD who has shown to have moxie, and that is really set this program back years further by sending Heath out to recruit with less than 3 years left-- he'd be telling HS kids that if they signed with him and showed up 13-14...he may not be there.  Yeah kids will be clammoring to sign on the dotted line for that opportunity.

After next season, Stan will have OVER 3 years left on his contract ...

Let's work through it so we're on the same page.  Heath's contract concludes after the 2014-15 season.  So let's walk through the math, and assume it is May 1, 2015 when the official expiration occurs.

After May 1, 2012 he would have less than three full years on his contract.  Although he would have three seasons remaining to coach which maybe that's what you mean.  HOWEVER heading into the 2012-13 season he would go into that season with the prospect of having less than a full three years of coaching on his contract.  For example July 1 2012 til July 1, 2013 is one year, July 1, 2013, to July 1, 2014 is two years, but July 1, 2014 until May 1, 2015 is not quite a full year August 1, 2015 is over a year....hence less more than three years.  Are we ok now?

Not really ... His contract expires August 1, 2015 ( http://www.gousfbulls.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=7700&ATCLID=204965802 ). I edited your post to reflect this. 

You have to ask yourselves how far into this contract will Doug allow Stan to go before extending him, or firing him?  WE ALL KNOW, he won't wait until 2014-2015 season, and I would argue he wouldn't wait until after the 2013-14 because that would be less than two years left on his contract.  Everyone knows that no one can recruit with that burden. 

This would suggest the upcoming year is most likely the decision time for Doug.  Either he must extend, or make a change, and I have a hard time believing anything less than .500 would warrant an extension.

Actually, it suggests to me that the 2012-13 is the most likely decision time ... especially considering that the upcoming year will be spent in a nomadic existence, without a real homecourt advantage (and yes, I did type that with a straight face).

[Guest nybullsfan]

...

Actually, it suggests to me that the 2012-13 is the most likely decision time ... especially considering that the upcoming year will be spent in a nomadic existence, without a real homecourt advantage (and yes, I did type that with a straight face).

This.

[Bullpride08]

I can see that because the kid averaged 13pts and 3ast for USA in the Sunbelt. After 2 years in college, he is what he is.

But Heath must see SOMETHING that makes him think this guy is worth taking a shot on. It's already done, so might as well hope for the best...

I don't believe Stan Heath is in any really danger of losing his job at the moment. If the team goes out next season and looks worse than it did last season, then I could see him being on a real hot seat all of 2012-13, as Triple B suggested. But I also think people are too quick to forget the 20-win season was just one year ago. Yeah the team regressed big time and nobody has stepped up to replace the explosiveness of Dominique Jones, but anyone who doesn't think that USF's overall situation in basketball isn't hard as **** is kidding themselves. I think that this guy led this team to an NIT berth that could very well have ended in an NCCA Tournament spot if a few things broke differently is impressive enough to give him more than one season to do it again.

I also expect the team to look better this year than last, because I think Heath is a pretty good coach and I think his resume as a coach supports that.

He's gone if they crap the bed after the 11-12 season.  Mark it down.  After next season Heath will have less than 3 years left on his contract.  By college coaching standards the AD MUST fire him or provide an extension.  How could Stan talk to anyone and reasonably assure them he'll be there in 2-3 years?  He can't....so you're saying he'll have another bad season next year and Doug will give him an extension?  That's the only way he can go into the 12-13 season....if Doug does nothing then he will make a very foolish move for an AD who has shown to have moxie, and that is really set this program back years further by sending Heath out to recruit with less than 3 years left-- he'd be telling HS kids that if they signed with him and showed up 13-14...he may not be there.  Yeah kids will be clammoring to sign on the dotted line for that opportunity.

After next season, Stan will have OVER 3 years left on his contract ...

Let's work through it so we're on the same page.  Heath's contract concludes after the 2014-15 season.  So let's walk through the math, and assume it is May 1, 2015 when the official expiration occurs.

After May 1, 2012 he would have less than three full years on his contract.  Although he would have three seasons remaining to coach which maybe that's what you mean.  HOWEVER heading into the 2012-13 season he would go into that season with the prospect of having less than a full three years of coaching on his contract.  For example July 1 2012 til July 1, 2013 is one year, July 1, 2013, to July 1, 2014 is two years, but July 1, 2014 until May 1, 2015 is not quite a full year August 1, 2015 is over a year....hence less more than three years.  Are we ok now?

Not really ... His contract expires August 1, 2015 ( http://www.gousfbulls.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=7700&ATCLID=204965802 ). I edited your post to reflect this. 

You have to ask yourselves how far into this contract will Doug allow Stan to go before extending him, or firing him?  WE ALL KNOW, he won't wait until 2014-2015 season, and I would argue he wouldn't wait until after the 2013-14 because that would be less than two years left on his contract.  Everyone knows that no one can recruit with that burden.   

This would suggest the upcoming year is most likely the decision time for Doug.  Either he must extend, or make a change, and I have a hard time believing anything less than .500 would warrant an extension.

Actually, it suggests to me that the 2012-13 is the most likely decision time ... especially considering that the upcoming year will be spent in a nomadic existence, without a real homecourt advantage (and yes, I did type that with a straight face).

OK so when the 2012-13 school year starts September 1, 2012 he will have less than three years.  I will change my calculation.  SO, when his 2012-13 season starts, and the early signing period is in early November, he will have to explain to kids how he has less than 3 years left on his contract if they sign in November...thus when the kids get there on September 1, 2013---- HE MAY NOT BE HERE!!!

So you think Doug allow him to coach the 2012-13 season with the prospects of only having 2 years remaining on his contract and trying to explain to recruits not to worry?!?  You expect that if he has a poor year in 2011-12 too?  Wow, then you've got a ton of blind faith.  The numbers, the timing of the new tv contract, the completion of the new facilities point to the fact that Stan must show some program improvements in this upcoming season, or Doug will be taking a huge risk, a risk that could also taint his own career, allowing Stan to coach through the 2012-13 season.  That's a BIG RISK, but if you think that then we'll have to wait and see, but I think he must go at least .500 in the upcoming season to warrant even a consideration to keep him on, let alone extend his contract.  You are the minority in this feeling so we'll keep and eye on it and remember your position.

[DELdaBull]

Pride,

You are incorrect. End on year that a college coach only has 2 seasons left on contract is extend or fire time.

[Bullpride08]

Pride,

You are incorrect. End on year that a college coach only has 2 seasons left on contract is extend or fire time.

I am not 'incorrect' because that is a matter of opinion.  Many, many industry folk subscribe to the fact that any time a coach has less than 4-3 years left on his contract, aside from iconic coaches like Calhoun, then it is a very devastating blow to recruiting.  In this instance, with already 5 years body of work, with the new contract, the new facilities....less than 3 will be the cut-off.  My opinion- you have one and so do I, as does triple. 

What we can all agree on, and triple despite his spinning can't deny.  Is Stanley Heath is on a very hot seat....at this point given the temperature of his seat there will be no rhyme or reason just when Doug feels it is time.

[Triple B]

What we can all agree on, and triple despite his spinning can't deny.  Is Stanley Heath is on a very hot seat ....at this point given the temperature of his seat there will be no rhyme or reason just when Doug feels it is time.

I can, and will, deny that he is on a "very hot seat" because there has been no evidence presented backing that up. You, Vega, et al WANT him on one because you want him out of here. Reality is nothing has come from anyone at USF indicating it ... As DEL said, and YOU even said earlier in this thread, 2 years to go on a contract is usually the fish or cut bait time. If your 3 year scenario was in play, Stan wouldn't have had a chance to have the best regular season in USF hoops history.

Stan was DW's pick to turn this program around. He is going to give him every opportunity to do just that and cutting him loose without even a chance to play in the renovated Sun Dome just doesn't seem like something he would do ... and your comment about giving Stan one more year after this being a BIG RISK was a joke, right? What's the risk?? This program has wallowed in mediocrity, and worse, for 15 years so what's the difference in one more year?  ... And to even bolster my argument, due to recent circumstances, this year is almost a throwaway to begin with. We're going into the season with a point guard who's never started a game at this level, much less in the Big East, and whatever meager home court advantage we have is gone for the whole season. Add to all this the fact that DW didn't even fire Mac with 3 years to go on his contract and I just don't see it happening after this season no matter what.

Bottom line, I hope this is all a wasted debate and we have a year that even you guys think will warrant one more chance ...