The Year is 2016 and you are USF's AD

[cmhatter]

I'm trying to figure out if you're really naive enough to believe all that crap or just being overly dramatic...or just another hater that wants to believe it.

Naive enough to believe what?  That abuse takes many forms?  That two of those include abuse of power and emotional abuse?  I really liked Jim Leavit as a coach.  I 100% wanted to see him coach at USF for at least another 2 years.  The mid-season collapses certainly had started to wear on my patience, but like most of USF nation, I was still a firm supporter of Jim Leavitt.  When this story first began to break I commented on his love for the university and how much I hoped he could be our coach next year.  Given his resposne to the allegations, his obvious false statements to the investigators (not specifically talking about choke or grab here, just some general incongruent statements), and his alleged attempts to circumvent the investigation it became obvious that he could not continue at USF.  I not along support the decision of our administration, given the facts presented to them I believe it was the only decision available to them. 

If Leavitt wanted to argue that he didn't really slap the kid that hard and it was good for him, then all the power to him.  Bobby Knight did it, with varying degrees of success.  But I have a hard time with a coach preaching integrity and responsibility to his team and then doing this.  There seems to be litle doubt an incident took place of some sufficient magnitude and Jim has just made it out like it was another half-time chat.

Wow!  There's a lot to deal with here.  Let's start with...

Given his resposne to the allegations, his obvious false statements to the investigators (not specifically talking about choke or grab here, just some general incongruent statements), and his alleged attempts to circumvent the investigation it became obvious that he could not continue at USF.  I not along support the decision of our administration, given the facts presented to them I believe it was the only decision available to them. 

Could you please tell us what "the obvious false statements to the investigators" were specifically?  How many "investigators" were there?  What incongruent statements?  How did he attempt to circumvent the investigation?

"In meeting with Coach Leavitt, he was asked to tell us what took place at halftime on November 21st. He indicated that a couple of guys were really down. He then demonstrated his version of the event which consisted of his kneeling in front of Student Athlete A, who was despondent over his play in the first half of the game, to gain his attention and, when he was not successful in doing so, shook Student Athlete A by his knees. At this point, Leavitt said that Student Athlete A was not responsive and the coach then grabbed him by his shoulder pads and offered words of encouragement, telling Student Athlete A that he was ok and that he would do better in the second half."

^^This does not get ANYONE fired.

Just imagine that sight... Leavitt kneeling and holding Joel's knees telling him that its all okay and that he will do better next time!

haha

[cmhatter]

I'm trying to figure out if you're really naive enough to believe all that crap or just being overly dramatic...or just another hater that wants to believe it.

Naive enough to believe what?  That abuse takes many forms?  That two of those include abuse of power and emotional abuse?  I really liked Jim Leavit as a coach.  I 100% wanted to see him coach at USF for at least another 2 years.  The mid-season collapses certainly had started to wear on my patience, but like most of USF nation, I was still a firm supporter of Jim Leavitt.  When this story first began to break I commented on his love for the university and how much I hoped he could be our coach next year.  Given his resposne to the allegations, his obvious false statements to the investigators (not specifically talking about choke or grab here, just some general incongruent statements), and his alleged attempts to circumvent the investigation it became obvious that he could not continue at USF.  I not along support the decision of our administration, given the facts presented to them I believe it was the only decision available to them. 

If Leavitt wanted to argue that he didn't really slap the kid that hard and it was good for him, then all the power to him.  Bobby Knight did it, with varying degrees of success.  But I have a hard time with a coach preaching integrity and responsibility to his team and then doing this.  There seems to be litle doubt an incident took place of some sufficient magnitude and Jim has just made it out like it was another half-time chat.

Wow!  There's a lot to deal with here.  Let's start with...

Given his resposne to the allegations, his obvious false statements to the investigators (not specifically talking about choke or grab here, just some general incongruent statements), and his alleged attempts to circumvent the investigation it became obvious that he could not continue at USF.  I not along support the decision of our administration, given the facts presented to them I believe it was the only decision available to them. 

Could you please tell us what "the obvious false statements to the investigators" were specifically?  How many "investigators" were there?  What incongruent statements?  How did he attempt to circumvent the investigation?

"In meeting with Coach Leavitt, he was asked to tell us what took place at halftime on November 21st. He indicated that a couple of guys were really down. He then demonstrated his version of the event which consisted of his kneeling in front of Student Athlete A, who was despondent over his play in the first half of the game, to gain his attention and, when he was not successful in doing so, shook Student Athlete A by his knees. At this point, Leavitt said that Student Athlete A was not responsive and the coach then grabbed him by his shoulder pads and offered words of encouragement, telling Student Athlete A that he was ok and that he would do better in the second half."

^^This does not get ANYONE fired.

Just imagine that sight... Leavitt kneeling and holding Joel's knees telling him that its all okay and that he will do better next time!

haha

And your point is...?

leavitt's story is obviously false... that's my point.

[slick1ru2]

I'm trying to figure out if you're really naive enough to believe all that crap or just being overly dramatic...or just another hater that wants to believe it.

Naive enough to believe what?  That abuse takes many forms?  That two of those include abuse of power and emotional abuse?  I really liked Jim Leavit as a coach.  I 100% wanted to see him coach at USF for at least another 2 years.  The mid-season collapses certainly had started to wear on my patience, but like most of USF nation, I was still a firm supporter of Jim Leavitt.  When this story first began to break I commented on his love for the university and how much I hoped he could be our coach next year.  Given his resposne to the allegations, his obvious false statements to the investigators (not specifically talking about choke or grab here, just some general incongruent statements), and his alleged attempts to circumvent the investigation it became obvious that he could not continue at USF.  I not along support the decision of our administration, given the facts presented to them I believe it was the only decision available to them. 

If Leavitt wanted to argue that he didn't really slap the kid that hard and it was good for him, then all the power to him.  Bobby Knight did it, with varying degrees of success.  But I have a hard time with a coach preaching integrity and responsibility to his team and then doing this.  There seems to be litle doubt an incident took place of some sufficient magnitude and Jim has just made it out like it was another half-time chat.

Wow!  There's a lot to deal with here.  Let's start with...

Given his resposne to the allegations, his obvious false statements to the investigators (not specifically talking about choke or grab here, just some general incongruent statements), and his alleged attempts to circumvent the investigation it became obvious that he could not continue at USF.  I not along support the decision of our administration, given the facts presented to them I believe it was the only decision available to them. 

Could you please tell us what "the obvious false statements to the investigators" were specifically?  How many "investigators" were there?  What incongruent statements?  How did he attempt to circumvent the investigation?

"In meeting with Coach Leavitt, he was asked to tell us what took place at halftime on November 21st. He indicated that a couple of guys were really down. He then demonstrated his version of the event which consisted of his kneeling in front of Student Athlete A, who was despondent over his play in the first half of the game, to gain his attention and, when he was not successful in doing so, shook Student Athlete A by his knees. At this point, Leavitt said that Student Athlete A was not responsive and the coach then grabbed him by his shoulder pads and offered words of encouragement, telling Student Athlete A that he was ok and that he would do better in the second half."

^^This does not get ANYONE fired.

Just imagine that sight... Leavitt kneeling and holding Joel's knees telling him that its all okay and that he will do better next time!

haha

LOL. Maybe he head butted Joel's knees after the slap.

But really, isn't that the look of someone who screwed up.  Talk abou intimidating the players. If he's crazy enough to head butt a player with a helmet on, who knows what he will do. Anyone EVER hear of a coach doing such a thing???

[cmhatter]

I'm trying to figure out if you're really naive enough to believe all that crap or just being overly dramatic...or just another hater that wants to believe it.

Naive enough to believe what?  That abuse takes many forms?  That two of those include abuse of power and emotional abuse?  I really liked Jim Leavit as a coach.  I 100% wanted to see him coach at USF for at least another 2 years.  The mid-season collapses certainly had started to wear on my patience, but like most of USF nation, I was still a firm supporter of Jim Leavitt.  When this story first began to break I commented on his love for the university and how much I hoped he could be our coach next year.  Given his resposne to the allegations, his obvious false statements to the investigators (not specifically talking about choke or grab here, just some general incongruent statements), and his alleged attempts to circumvent the investigation it became obvious that he could not continue at USF.  I not along support the decision of our administration, given the facts presented to them I believe it was the only decision available to them. 

If Leavitt wanted to argue that he didn't really slap the kid that hard and it was good for him, then all the power to him.  Bobby Knight did it, with varying degrees of success.  But I have a hard time with a coach preaching integrity and responsibility to his team and then doing this.  There seems to be litle doubt an incident took place of some sufficient magnitude and Jim has just made it out like it was another half-time chat.

Wow!  There's a lot to deal with here.  Let's start with...

Given his resposne to the allegations, his obvious false statements to the investigators (not specifically talking about choke or grab here, just some general incongruent statements), and his alleged attempts to circumvent the investigation it became obvious that he could not continue at USF.  I not along support the decision of our administration, given the facts presented to them I believe it was the only decision available to them. 

Could you please tell us what "the obvious false statements to the investigators" were specifically?  How many "investigators" were there?  What incongruent statements?  How did he attempt to circumvent the investigation?

"In meeting with Coach Leavitt, he was asked to tell us what took place at halftime on November 21st. He indicated that a couple of guys were really down. He then demonstrated his version of the event which consisted of his kneeling in front of Student Athlete A, who was despondent over his play in the first half of the game, to gain his attention and, when he was not successful in doing so, shook Student Athlete A by his knees. At this point, Leavitt said that Student Athlete A was not responsive and the coach then grabbed him by his shoulder pads and offered words of encouragement, telling Student Athlete A that he was ok and that he would do better in the second half."

^^This does not get ANYONE fired.

Just imagine that sight... Leavitt kneeling and holding Joel's knees telling him that its all okay and that he will do better next time!

haha

And your point is...?

leavitt's story is obviously false... that's my point.

How so?  According to whom?

his story wasn't corroborated by anybody... not even the guys he got to sign affidavits.

on top of that... it is totally ridiculous to believe that. The guy was smashing his own head on LaDre's helmet... causing himself to bleed all over his face... what makes you think he knelt down in front of joel and told him he would play better...

[cmhatter]

where did the state troops, player's parent, volunteer coach, or current player say that leavitt knelt down in front of joel?

and told him he'd GET EM NEXT TIME!

[cmhatter]

don't even know why we are arguing this again... the players in the locker room during the incident know what happened... CJL knowns what happened, joel knows what happened....

pretty much everyone on the planet knows that leavitt wasn't truthful and tampered with the investigation.

the only thing to figure out now is if USF followed leavitt's contract

if not, pay him and get him out of the universities hair...

[slick1ru2]

Back on topic. Woody Hayes was a successful football coach with 14 conference championships and 3 national championships. He stormed up and down the sidelines mad as could be, cursing up a storm, fuming and acting the fool just like someone else we know. He did in pubic what the USF report found Leavitt did in private, struck a player (on the other team though), and was fired. Ironically years earlier a journalist saw Hayes hit a player and never reported it and came forward after this incident saying he regretted not reporting the incident he witnessed almost 20 years prior. Who knows how much abuse Hayes inflicted during those years.

Anyway, 5 years after being fired, Ohio State named the athletic center after him and put a plaque up that told of his many achievements. Of course, Hayes was one of the best coaches in college football history (top 10 list for wins). He also after being fired donated money to the school, not sue the school. He also asked as part of his will  that in his memory friends, family and followers donate to academics at Ohio State. So Hayes left a legacy that continues to this day, with an endowment chair, long after he died. Leavitt sued USF. He deserves nothing. Not even a urinal.

[slick1ru2]

If they could make a urinal like this it would be great. Just have it look like Leavitt.  "The Jim Leavitt Memorial Urinal. Dedicated to all the talent he pissed away while at USF." 

[USF_Grouper]

You haven't read the report, have you?

Of course I have.  Leavitt claimed to have not been aware of Miller's penalty, claimed to have noticed he was a bit out of it and "knelt down" next to him.  Both of those claims are widely disputed, even by the most generous of observers.  It was obvious Leavitt was aware of the penalty, it was obvious he didn't kneel beside him.  THese aren't small details, these are fundamental to undrestanding what kind of interaction took place. 

Further Leavitt argued that nothing of signficance occurred.  That is to say he wasn't arguing that he came close to the line but didn't cross it, he was arguing that he simply did nothing wrong.  That is not consistent with the actions of Joel and the USF team following the game nor consistent with the reaction of the lockerroom at the time of the incident.  You don't meet with a walk-on player to discuss a non-incident. 

If I had to make the decision Judy had to make, what would have weighed most heavily on my mind was Jim's apparent disregard for the truth throughout the investigation.  It is certainly plausible that all he did was grab the kids shoulderpad, give him a good shake, maybe even his hand slipped a bit.  If that is the case, I would think a simple apology would have sufficed (matter of fact, such an apology to Joel would have probably ended this before it started).  However, you have to be upfront and straight about it.  If you go down the line of making obviously false statements, and purportedly pressuring witnesses and taking revenge style action against others then you leave administrators with little choice.

[Triple B]

If they could make a urinal like this it would be great. Just have it look like Leavitt.  "The Jim Leavitt Memorial Urinal. Dedicated to all the talent he pissed away while at USF." 

A quick reminder on the rules Brad put forth here:

A temporary (hopefully) board established for ongoing conversation regarding the Leavitt-Miller situation and the associated lawsuits, theories, ramifications, etc. This is not a board to attack Miller or Leavitt. It will be moderated. Board members making attacks will be suspended or banned.

We haven't been terribly strict on this but you've made your point ... Move on.